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Format HDD or SSD too much, is it a bad thing? - Page 2

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad0314;14361319 
10K+ write cycles as a theoretical limit, that is still a long time. Yes it will impact the life of it, but not nearly as much as you may think.

FYI, they're rated for 3000 write/erase cycles usually.
     
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post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
FYI, they're rated for 3000 write/erase cycles usually.
I have seen 3000, 5000, 10 000, 30 000 , 100 000, 1mil+ (though usually for SLC).

Most of which have had no reputable source as far as NAND flash goes. In the end they are a good guess. The only one that I have found is from OCZ's Michael Schuette at http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//i...1&limitstart=4 (not that there are not any others, but I havent found any, if you have any I would love to read them)

He says 3000-10 000 so thats on the low end. Either way, as long as its not an enterprise use drive and youre not reinstalling Windows daily, it will last longer than youll use your computer (especially an OCN computer ). And again, at 1 write cycle per day, which would be a Windows install +10-200 GB depending on the size of the drive, that would be 365 write cycles per year. That would be 8 years to wear out the drive (theoretically). Again, its not nearly as bad as people think.
    
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post #13 of 26
I base my numbers on the Micron-Intel joint venture. They make some of the best MLC NAND out there. Micron rates it at 3k write-erases, and Intel rates it at 5k write-erases.

Does it last longer? You bet - lots of it lasts way longer! But for whatever reason, their awesome MLC is rated quite conservatively. It makes me wonder about the higher rated stuff?

Consider all the failures that have happened on non-Intel non-Crucial SSDs. Most of those were early deaths on SSDs with 10k rated NAND. I don't know what part failed, but I can hazard a guess.
Edited by Kramy - 7/27/11 at 1:56am
     
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post #14 of 26
Its always better to rate more conservative, especially if youre going for the quality label (which Intel obviously is top notch).

As to the OP, it depends on how much you mean when you say "too much." What exactly are you doing with it and how long do you plan on keeping the SSD?
    
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post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad0314 View Post
Its always better to rate more conservative, especially if youre going for the quality label (which Intel obviously is top notch).

As to the OP, it depends on how much you mean when you say "too much." What exactly are you doing with it and how long do you plan on keeping the SSD?
well I'm obviously not going to format and install windows every day like these big companies do....but I do plan on formatting and installing windows 7 every few months...its just a habit I've built....I guess its an OCD, I get great satisfaction every time I wipe and fresh install....everything feels smoother and preppier...I guess after loading the HDD with a bunch of junk, it slows it down big time...so when I fresh install, I get to do it all over again...haha
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post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven88 View Post
well I'm obviously not going to format and install windows every day like these big companies do....but I do plan on formatting and installing windows 7 every few months...its just a habit I've built....I guess its an OCD, I get great satisfaction every time I wipe and fresh install....everything feels smoother and preppier...I guess after loading the HDD with a bunch of junk, it slows it down big time...so when I fresh install, I get to do it all over again...haha
Heh... I was quite proud of myself for going two years without Windows slowing down at all.

Good choices of software, maybe?
     
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post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post
On HDD it doesn't matter, but some of the SSD's will start to get degraded performance if you do it a ton for a long time.
No.... reformating will NOT degrade performance. It will use up write cycles though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
The controller on the SSD. They all have different garbage collection algorithms. The verdict is still out on which ones are best. (We'll know in a few years)
No.... it is the write amplification. How much the controller actually writes vs how much is requested. SandForce controllers write about 700MB for every 1GB via compression. Garbage collection does not apply since the entire drive is in the clean state.


Quote:
Originally Posted by steven88 View Post
well I'm obviously not going to format and install windows every day like these big companies do....but I do plan on formatting and installing windows 7 every few months...its just a habit I've built....I guess its an OCD, I get great satisfaction every time I wipe and fresh install....everything feels smoother and preppier...I guess after loading the HDD with a bunch of junk, it slows it down big time...so when I fresh install, I get to do it all over again...haha
I wouldn't worry about it too much. A reformat will proably use 30-40GB of writes.

Intel rate their SSDs for 20GB/day while most users write 2-8GB a day.
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/27/11 at 2:21pm
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post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
No.... it is the write amplification. How much the controller actually writes vs how much is requested. SandForce controllers write about 700MB for every 1GB via compression.
There's no guarantee that that every write is 100% efficient.

That's what nailed many Indilinx controllers. Every write (whether 256KiB or 4KiB) triggered a write/erase. 1MB of Firefox cache was more damaging to those than 30MB of sequential writes - it burned through far more erases.

Most of the people that had Indilinx SSDs die rapidly had made the mistake of putting their web browser and Pagefile on it.

Luckily most other controllers don't seem to be affected by this problem.
     
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
There's no guarantee that that every write is 100% efficient.

That's what nailed many Indilinx controllers. Every write (whether 256KiB or 4KiB) triggered a write/erase. 1MB of Firefox cache was more damaging to those than 30MB of sequential writes - it burned through far more erases.

Most of the people that had Indilinx SSDs die rapidly had made the mistake of putting their web browser and Pagefile on it.

Luckily most other controllers don't seem to be affected by this problem.
Of course, but that .7 amplification is an average.

Why would every write trigger a write/erase? I know this is not true otherwise write latency would always be high due to read/erase/write. If there is a clean page, it will just write.

I am not sure if Indilinx published their Barefoot's write amplification though. However, it did have dedicated DRAM as swap space.

I have a 30GB Indilinx going strong in my HTPC after over a year...
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post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Why would every write trigger a write/erase? I know this is not true otherwise write latency would always be high due to read/erase/write. If there is a clean page, it will just write.
Many other SSDs will buffer the writes until there are enough to fill a whole NAND cell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
I have a 30GB Indilinx going strong in my HTPC after over a year...
I don't have a huge amount of experience with SSDs. I've never even owned an Intel one. But all the 30GB Indilinx SSDs I purchased (~3) are now dead.

What OS is your HTPC running? Your SSD probably isn't brutalized like a desktop OS drive.
     
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