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post #131 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
i must admit that I actually laughed out loud when I read this. I am glad that you cleared that up. I guess I can go sell a box of rocks to the local university and just say"heres a couple pounds of Caesium dudes- CHEAP!" and they will pay me right? In actuality they are going to measure this- using Specific Gravity and Mass. Both of these methods require using the Speed of Light, the Meter, and The Second. AND, this supposedly bedrock measurement of the "Second" is stated as being "counted in a vacuum", which these same scientists admit is an impossible condition.

I really do LOVE the "is because it is" line. Here is another one for you:

Question: What is Light?

Answer: It is the absence of Darkness.

OK- another Question: What is Darkness?

Answer: It is the absence of Light.

Ok- what is Light?

Both of these statements are true, but yet they both prove nothing. This is called "Circular Reasoning", similar to saying something "is because it is". Your statement is true, yet it proves abslutley nothing.
You are attempting to use philosophy in the realm of science.

Basically, I drop a rock from 4 ft at sea level in standard atmosphere with no wind. Then go ask 6 billion people what happened... the vast majority would say the rock fell. Since everyone is in basic agreement, we can make the statement that everyone observed the rock fell... so based on our observation, the rock fell. To continue on with science, we have to take that observation at face until it can be proven.

Your agruement is philosophical. Of course, everything we know might be wrong but until we can prove otherwise... we do what we can do. Scientists did not just pull a number out the air the speed of light. It has been repeatedly, objective, and measurablly tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
What units are they using for these measurements? The same ones being used to define themsleves, or are there some other better ones that I am unaware of and that you are keeping from everybody?
The units does not actually matter... please comprehend that. Units are just mutually agreed reference points.

If I solve a problem in base 2 vs base 10... the answer is still exactly the same even if the results do not appear the same.
10 + 10 = 20
1010 + 1010 = 10100

Or.... the distance between LA and NYC is 2462 mi (or 3961 km). The system I used does not matter... the distance is still the same. It is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
Also, I am not "arguing" about circular reasoning- I am pointing out that using it as a base for our understanding of the Universe is silly. If you would bother to read my posts I clearly stated that Circular Reasoning is not necessarly "wrong", I actually stated that it can often be "right", but it simply proves nothing.
The base for our understanding of the Universe is observation based on preception based on assumptions. It is not perfect (and we already know this) but this is the best and only thing that can be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
And again- for your last paragraph I honestly implore of you to refrain from assuming that you know what I think, and then make baseless accusations and insults based upon that which you have imagined. You are really neiher here nor there, a lot of what you say actually supports what I am saying, although you seem to not realize this
It isn't baseless... you have repeatedly demonstrated that you don't fully comprehend these concepts.

Would you like to discuss quantum mechanics?
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/26/11 at 12:15pm
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post #132 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
What units are they using for these measurements? The same ones being used to define themsleves, or are there some other better ones that I am unaware of and that you are keeping from everybody?

Also, I am not "arguing" about circular reasoning- I am pointing out that using it as a base for our understanding of the Universe is silly. If you would bother to read my posts I clearly stated that Circular Reasoning is not necessarly "wrong", I actually stated that it can often be "right", but it simply proves nothing.

And again- for your last paragraph I honestly implore of you to refrain from assuming that you know what I think, and then make baseless accusations and insults based upon that which you have imagined. You are really neiher here nor there, a lot of what you say actually supports what I am saying, although you seem to not realize this.
All knowledge is based off of certain axioms. For example, translated from Euclid's Elements (basis of most geometry, outside of modern physics):

Quote:
"Let the following be postulated":

1. "To draw a straight line from any point to any point."
2. "To produce [extend] a finite straight line continuously in a straight line."
3. "To describe a circle with any centre and distance [radius]."
4. "That all right angles are equal to one another."
5. The parallel postulate: "That, if a straight line falling on two straight lines make the interior angles on the same side less than two right angles, the two straight lines, if produced indefinitely, meet on that side on which are the angles less than the two right angles."
Without making a few basic assumptions there can be no knowledge. But if you haven't noticed, the postulates scientists have made have been rather fruitful. Otherwise we'd still be in the Stone Age.
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post #133 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by iambald View Post
All knowledge is based off of certain axioms. For example, translated from Euclid's Elements (basis of most geometry, outside of modern physics):



Without making a few basic assumptions there can be no knowledge. But if you haven't noticed, the postulates scientists have made have been rather fruitful. Otherwise we'd still be in the Stone Age.
To add, some cases where Euclid's Elements may not work is in non-planar geometry. However, this because we explicitly changed the realm of mathematics. We knowingly changed the rules of the game. So is it wrong? No, it just not always work... unless the equation is just a subset of a larger equation.

i.e. Classical vs relativistic physics.
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post #134 of 200
Yes, I understand that a whole lot of people have "measured" the "Speed of Light". My point is that we do not have a proper way to measure this, and we are unable to produce a condition in which a satisfactory reading can be taken. You are also overlooking the fact that these same scientists now insist that there is an unknown, unseeable, and unmeasurable substance which pervades the entire Universe, and that this magic "Ether" known as "Dark Matter or Dark Energy" makes Einsteins Theories work. How does this unkown substance affect the Speed of Light- ?? How can one be sure if a certain space is full of this stuff- or completely empty? If the Speed of Light is supposed to be a Constant, then these issues must be resolved.

Is the Speed of Light unpassable? Maybe. Maybe not. But the reality is that we do not know what the real "Speed of Light" is for certain. We can only make empirical measurements using an inherently flawed system of measurement from an extremely limited veiwpoint.
    
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post #135 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
What units are they using for these measurements? The same ones being used to define themsleves, or are there some other better ones that I am unaware of and that you are keeping from everybody?

Also, I am not "arguing" about circular reasoning- I am pointing out that using it as a base for our understanding of the Universe is silly. If you would bother to read my posts I clearly stated that Circular Reasoning is not necessarly "wrong", I actually stated that it can often be "right", but it simply proves nothing.

And again- for your last paragraph I honestly implore of you to refrain from assuming that you know what I think, and then make baseless accusations and insults based upon that which you have imagined. You are really neiher here nor there, a lot of what you say actually supports what I am saying, although you seem to not realize this.
If I explain the units, you are just going to say the data is invalid.

You are bringing up a philosophical question in a science discussion. Philosophy is not science.

How do you know if your face is going to be the same? Do people say you look like Mike Tyson one day? Do they say you look like Hillary Clinton the next day? Then your mother says you look like the blue beings in Avataar.

You are basically saying your face constantly switches between the three because you cannot trust your own thoughts or how others observe you. After all, knowledge and data is untrustworthy according to you.

No one is insulting you. Why are you mad?
post #136 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelthras View Post
Well that could be it, except for the fact deja vu continues ahead of what's actually happened. Hence remembering something a few seconds before it happened.
Remembering something before it happened? Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but remember something before it has happened would be pre-cognitive abilities rather than Deja Vu, which is just thinking that you're experiencing something that has already happened when it's not possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
Yes, I understand that a whole lot of people have "measured" the "Speed of Light". My point is that we do not have a proper way to measure this, and we are unable to produce a condition in which a satisfactory reading can be taken.
You really don't know what you're talking about. The speed of light can be measured, and has been measured.
299,792,458 meters per second (in a vacuum).
Edited by lordikon - 7/26/11 at 12:36pm
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post #137 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
How do these"scientists " know what atom they are looking at to derive the Second? They use formulas involving the Speed of Light, The Meter and the Second. A "Proof" requires using something other than itself to define itself. The fact of the "matter" (pun intended) is that we not only do not understand the basic nature of the Universe, we do not yet even have a way to take valid measurements.
I think if I laughed for 100 years, I wouldn't have laughed long enough at this statement.

Pure gold man, pure gold.
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post #138 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
If I explain the units, you are just going to say the data is invalid.

You are bringing up a philosophical question in a science discussion. Philosophy is not science.

How do you know if your face is going to be the same? Do people say you look like Mike Tyson one day? Do they say you look like Hillary Clinton the next day? Then your mother says you look like the blue beings in Avataar.

You are basically saying your face constantly switches between the three because you cannot trust your own thoughts or how others observe you. After all, knowledge and data is untrustworthy according to you.

No one is insulting you. Why are you mad?
What in the WORLD are you talking about??? You completely lost me there.

If you have some facts then spit em out . I would love to hear them. The fact that you must resort to baseless conjecture and petty insults tells me that you simply do not have a valid "argument". If you do not have any answers, and you refuse to question anything, then WHAT EXACTLY are you posting here for?

Edit to add: I suggest you try reading your posts through before you post them. Here is an example of why I "think" this.

First, you say
Quote:
your mother says you look like the blue beings in Avataar.
and then a couple sentences later you say:
Quote:
No one is insulting you
????? Cmon now- either say something that makes sense or just stand aside- PLEASE!
Edited by Jagged_Steel - 7/26/11 at 12:43pm
    
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post #139 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
What in the WORLD are you talking about??? You completely lost me there.
That is my line for you.
Quote:
If you have some facts then spit em out . I would love to hear them. The fact that you must resort to baseless conjecture and petty insults tells me that you simply do not have a valid "argument". If you do not have any answers, and you refuse to question anything, then WHAT EXACTLY are you posting here for?

Tell me...does your face stay the same on a day by day basis? How do you know that?

Don't dodge the question.
post #140 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
Yes, I understand that a whole lot of people have "measured" the "Speed of Light". My point is that we do not have a proper way to measure this, and we are unable to produce a condition in which a satisfactory reading can be taken. You are also overlooking the fact that these same scientists now insist that there is an unknown, unseeable, and unmeasurable substance which pervades the entire Universe, and that this magic "Ether" known as "Dark Matter or Dark Energy" makes Einsteins Theories work. How does this unkown substance affect the Speed of Light- ?? How can one be sure if a certain space is full of this stuff- or completely empty? If the Speed of Light is supposed to be a Constant, then these issues must be resolved.

Is the Speed of Light unpassable? Maybe. Maybe not. But the reality is that we do not know what the real "Speed of Light" is for certain. We can only make empirical measurements using an inherently flawed system of measurement from an extremely limited veiwpoint.
Ok no, this is the one. Tops the last one completely. You are a comic genius. Bravo.

And your use of "air quotes", "it's hilarious". You should "see" that "episode" of friends "when they" teach Joey how to use "them".

/golf-clap
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