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[TPU]19 September Launch Day for AMD Bulldozer FX Series Processors - Page 12  

post #111 of 201
Actually it isn't.

Get a 120Hz monitor and a cpu that can actually push those frames in a dual gpu configuration and tell me 60fps looks the same as 120.


Seriously you need to be very bias to believe software developers are the problem and not the cpu manufacture who continually increases core count beyond current limitations.

From your stand-point the thought process is "Why you no make software use more cores". Because AMD is feeding you more cores, you assume more cores is the best way to go about things despite the obvious lack of software capable of utilizing that core count fully. AMD plays on this blind ignorance of how multiprocessing works. Instead of understanding how games are designed and what multithreading really is, you assume the software devs are dumb and incapable of doing something so simple as increasing rendering core count to 4 cores instead of 1 or 2. You also seem to lack a basic understanding that there is no possible way currently for software to be design to fully saturate a multi-core processor because of the way threads work.

In the end it's the same old tired story, IPC trumps core count, unless ICP lacks cores usable. What that means is a higher IPC chip with 1 core will perform worse than a lower IPC chip with 2 cores in a dual threaded app.

However knowing that games generally use 2-4 cores, introducing a cpu at this time with 2 to 4 times the amount of usable cores then blaming software devs for the inevitable fail (because getting SB per core IPC on eight cores and with same TDP is impossible for AMD) isn't what a bright person does.

Now obviously we're going to get a boat load of AMD fans coming in after Bulldozer releases with their Cinebench 11.5 results, and the whole cycle will continue where Thuban vs Lynnfield left off.

AMD wins in some multithreaded applications, and the thought process continues that games and their devs are to blame for AMD's poor gaming performance.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 7/27/11 at 1:31pm
    
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post #112 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Actually it isn't.

Get a 120Hz monitor and a cpu that can actually push those frames in a dual gpu configuration and tell me 60fps looks the same as 120.
120Hz monitors look better because they implement some other technology besides simply supporting higher frames. I forget what it's called.

As I told you before, I have tried. I can BARELY tell a difference between 45 and 60 fps, and even then I have to concentrate hard to notice.

Quote:
Seriously you need to be very bias to believe software developers are the problem and not the cpu manufacture who continually increases core count beyond current limitations.

From your stand-point the thought process is "Why you no make software use more cores". Because AMD is feeding you more cores, you assume more cores is the best way to go about things despite the obvious lack of software capable of utilizing that core count fully. AMD plays on this blind ignorance of how multiprocessing works. Instead of understanding how games are designed and what multithreading really is, you assume the software devs are dumb and incapable of doing something so simple as increasing rendering core count to 4 cores instead of 1 or 2. You also seem to lack a basic understanding that there is no possible way currently for software to be design to fully saturate a multi-core processor because of the way threads work.
More cores is the best way to go, and a lot of software can take advantage of them.

BF3 will use eight cores. So please tell me why no other game can.

Quote:
In the end it's the same old tired story, IPC trumps core count, unless ICP lacks cores usable. What that means is a higher IPC chip with 1 core will perform worse than a lower IPC chip with 2 cores in a dual threaded app.
This is false. An eight core with lower IPC beats a quad core with higher IPC. Phenom II X4 beats Nehalem Core i3.

Quote:
However knowing that games generally use 2-4 cores, introducing a cpu at this time with 2 to 4 times the amount of usable cores then blaming software devs for the inevitable fail (because getting SB per core IPC on eight cores and with same TDP is impossible) isn't what a bright person does.
You need to understand that gaming isn't the only thing people do with their CPUs, and only a handful of games with crappy hardware optimization will run much worse on an E4500 than a 2600k.

And the part of you post that I bolded is simply not true. That displays a lack of knowledge of CPU architecture. The 3960X will have the same TDP as the Core i7 920 despite having twice as much cache, two more cores, nearly 1 GHz higher clock speed, much better IMC, and ~15% higher IPC.

Quote:
Now obviously we're going to get a boat load of AMD fans coming in after Bulldozer releases with their Cinebench 11.5 results, and the whole cycle will continue where Thuban vs Lynnfield left off.
Because Cinebench is irrelevant?

Quote:
AMD wins in some multithreaded applications, and the thought process continues that games and their devs are to blame for AMD's poor gaming performance.
Games and their devs are to blame. BF3 will fully utilize the power of the AMD FX CPU, so why can't other games? I do understand that there's a point where multithreaded gaming hits a wall... but we haven't hit it yet.
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post #113 of 201
Gonna pass on that, gl though.
    
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post #114 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Actually it isn't.

Get a 120Hz monitor and a cpu that can actually push those frames in a dual gpu configuration and tell me 60fps looks the same as 120.


Seriously you need to be very bias to believe software developers are the problem and not the cpu manufacture who continually increases core count beyond current limitations.

From your stand-point the thought process is "Why you no make software use more cores". Because AMD is feeding you more cores, you assume more cores is the best way to go about things despite the obvious lack of software capable of utilizing that core count fully. AMD plays on this blind ignorance of how multiprocessing works. Instead of understanding how games are designed and what multithreading really is, you assume the software devs are dumb and incapable of doing something so simple as increasing rendering core count to 4 cores instead of 1 or 2. You also seem to lack a basic understanding that there is no possible way currently for software to be design to fully saturate a multi-core processor because of the way threads work.

In the end it's the same old tired story, IPC trumps core count, unless ICP lacks cores usable. What that means is a higher IPC chip with 1 core will perform worse than a lower IPC chip with 2 cores in a dual threaded app.

However knowing that games generally use 2-4 cores, introducing a cpu at this time with 2 to 4 times the amount of usable cores then blaming software devs for the inevitable fail (because getting SB per core IPC on eight cores and with same TDP is impossible for AMD) isn't what a bright person does.

Now obviously we're going to get a boat load of AMD fans coming in after Bulldozer releases with their Cinebench 11.5 results, and the whole cycle will continue where Thuban vs Lynnfield left off.

AMD wins in some multithreaded applications, and the thought process continues that games and their devs are to blame for AMD's poor gaming performance.
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post #115 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
That made me lol.

Don't you know Cinebench is a fake benchmark? It doesn't REALLY exist. XD
Ok, I get 9.4 points in r11.5, what does BD get? Oh that's right, you only deal in mythical numbers....
post #116 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
120Hz monitors look better because they implement some other technology besides simply supporting higher frames. I forget what it's called.

As I told you before, I have tried. I can BARELY tell a difference between 45 and 60 fps, and even then I have to concentrate hard to notice.
There's a very clear difference going from 45fps to 60fps. Personally I can't stand gaming @ 45fps.

And if a normal 120hz LCD monitor doesn't prove that 120fps looks smoother than 60fps, take a high-end CRT with a refresh rate of 100hz etc. and try saying that again.
 
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post #117 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Ok, I get 9.4 points in r11.5, what does BD get? Oh that's right, you only deal in mythical numbers....
That's completely different from what you claimed before were "mythical numbers". All of my estimates regarding Bulldozer's performance are based on numbers from AMD and AMD's most detailed descriptions of the architecture. I expect a heavily overclocked Bulldozer octocore to get above 11 points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
There's a very clear difference going from 45fps to 60fps. Personally I can't stand gaming @ 45fps.

And if a normal 120hz LCD monitor doesn't prove that 120fps looks smoother than 60fps, take a high-end CRT with a refresh rate of 100hz etc. and try saying that again.
I didn't say that NO ONE could tell the difference. Hardcore gamers and people who work in such fields will be able to tell some difference. However, from what I can tell, most people cannot. Maybe more than half of people here on OCN will. But most people cannot. And people who can't stand gaming at 45fps are even rarer.

I don't own any CRTs. Threw them all out years ago.

How about someone do what I said in an earlier post. Play CoD 4 on a 120Hz monitor, then plug in a 60Hz monitor. If you can tell the difference, you have great eyes.
Edited by Usario - 7/27/11 at 2:10pm
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post #118 of 201
i love these threads
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post #119 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
i love these threads
They always do end up hosting off-topic arguments and sometimes flame wars...
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AMD OPTERON BULLDOZER 16-CORE 2GHZ (32GHZ TOTAL) ALIENWARE 3+1 PHASE ITX GAMING BOARD 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 430 32GB GAMING DDR3 800MHZ CL13 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2TB 5400RPM GAMING HDD GAMING BLU RAY BURNER ONE GAMING CASE FAN UBUNTU W/ UNITY (I AM 1337 H4X0R) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HD-READY 24" 1366X768 PENTILE TN PANEL GAMING M... ALIENWARE TACTX UBER 1337 BACKLIT RUBBER MEMBRA... OFF-BRAND 200W GAMING PSU; 65% EFFICIENCY  ALIENWARE GAMING CASE WITH THE COOL GLOWING ALIEN 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
ALIENWARE TACTX GAMING MOUSE ALIENWARE MOUSEPAD IT'S DESIGNED FOR GAMING AND... BEATS AUDIO 1337 ALIENWARE TACTX 8-CHANNEL GAMING HEADSET/M... 
OtherOther
16 CORES!!!! 4GB VRAM!!!! FASTER THAN 3960X + 7... ALIENWARE GAMING CARPET 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A6-3420M OC 2.2GHz / 3GHz Turbo 1.10625v ASUS A53Z AMD Radeon HD 6520G 6GB DDR3 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
320GB WD Scorpio Black yes. really good Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Fedora GNU/Linux 1366x768 LED-backlit TN panel Decent + numpad ~5hr 6-cell li-ion 
Audio
Altec Lansing 
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Kalki
(25 items)
 
Alienware
(18 items)
 
ASUS A53Z
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 @ 4.73GHz Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 Radeon HD 7950 @ 1200/1800 8GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 @ 2000MHz 11-11-11-28-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
128GB Crucial M4 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 2TB Seagate Barracuda ST 7200 RPM who cares 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm XSPC Razor HD 7970 XSPC EX240 Swiftech MCP50X 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 2x XSPC Xinruilian 1650rpm 2x Yate Loon Slim 1800rpm Alphacool Light Tower 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Gentoo GNU/Linux Dell UltraSharp U2412M CM Storm Trigger MX Brown 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair AX750 Corsair Carbide 300R Logitech G400 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD OPTERON BULLDOZER 16-CORE 2GHZ (32GHZ TOTAL) ALIENWARE 3+1 PHASE ITX GAMING BOARD 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 430 32GB GAMING DDR3 800MHZ CL13 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2TB 5400RPM GAMING HDD GAMING BLU RAY BURNER ONE GAMING CASE FAN UBUNTU W/ UNITY (I AM 1337 H4X0R) 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HD-READY 24" 1366X768 PENTILE TN PANEL GAMING M... ALIENWARE TACTX UBER 1337 BACKLIT RUBBER MEMBRA... OFF-BRAND 200W GAMING PSU; 65% EFFICIENCY  ALIENWARE GAMING CASE WITH THE COOL GLOWING ALIEN 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
ALIENWARE TACTX GAMING MOUSE ALIENWARE MOUSEPAD IT'S DESIGNED FOR GAMING AND... BEATS AUDIO 1337 ALIENWARE TACTX 8-CHANNEL GAMING HEADSET/M... 
OtherOther
16 CORES!!!! 4GB VRAM!!!! FASTER THAN 3960X + 7... ALIENWARE GAMING CARPET 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD A6-3420M OC 2.2GHz / 3GHz Turbo 1.10625v ASUS A53Z AMD Radeon HD 6520G 6GB DDR3 1333MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
320GB WD Scorpio Black yes. really good Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Fedora GNU/Linux 1366x768 LED-backlit TN panel Decent + numpad ~5hr 6-cell li-ion 
Audio
Altec Lansing 
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post #120 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
They always do end up hosting off-topic arguments and sometimes flame wars...
not only that .. but a total lack of information judgement and math skillz
My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 8120 Asus crosshair V formula 2 msi HD6870 Twin Frozr II CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 SAMSUNG F4 2TB boot + 4 WD 2TB storage Lite On blu ray player win 7 sp1 oem Asus VH236H @ 1920 x 1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech Media Elite Keyboard ENERMAX MAXREVO 1350W psu SILVERSTONE RAVEN RV02B-EW Matte black logitech OEM 
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My System
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 8120 Asus crosshair V formula 2 msi HD6870 Twin Frozr II CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2 SAMSUNG F4 2TB boot + 4 WD 2TB storage Lite On blu ray player win 7 sp1 oem Asus VH236H @ 1920 x 1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
logitech Media Elite Keyboard ENERMAX MAXREVO 1350W psu SILVERSTONE RAVEN RV02B-EW Matte black logitech OEM 
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