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[TPU]19 September Launch Day for AMD Bulldozer FX Series Processors - Page 14  

post #131 of 201
The only people who think any of this is Intel vs AMD are the same people who actually care what name comes on the box.

For the rest of us who purchase based on price/performance for our needs it doesn't actually matter whose name is on the box.

I can't speak for everyone, but I find it very hard to understand how anyone could care for either company past what they're getting from them. Do you go to picnics with the PR folks, do they help you out when you're coming up short on the bills? Do they buy you a drink at the local pub?

We're talking about billion dollar corporations and some of you seem to think they care about you. I'm trying to figure out where some of you may have gone wrong to develop a relationship with a corporation - it's almost "mac" like in blind devotion to a company that wants nothing from you but your money.
    
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post #132 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
The "bad IPC" claim particularly annoys me because it's a fact that since each integer core has four pipelines IPC will be comparable to or better than Nehalem.
They're assuming it has "bad IPC" due to the fact it is an 8 core,and basing their speculations on current gen AMD processors that have little IPC gain as more cores are added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
yet their hyperthreaded cpu has 8 threads .... LOL
not only this .. but some info on the bulldozer architecture is allready out ... showing that amd has a good one in their hands ...
now how will the program react to it is something different .
cannot wait for the nda to be lifted on those architectural detail slides ... so that hans on xs can explain it further for us mere mortals
Their CPU is also entirely different, but those 8 extra threads also boost benchmark scores. It's like trying to compare a Porsche engine to a Lamborghini engine. In real world use,hyper threading can actually hurt performance. AMD's cluster based multiprocessing is supposed to improve performance. I can't wait for NDA to be lifted either,we'll finally know whether BD will deliver or be a flop. With 5 years of work,BD couldn't be any worse.
Edited by Heavy MG - 7/27/11 at 2:55pm
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post #133 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
The only people who think any of this is Intel vs AMD are the same people who actually care what name comes on the box.

For the rest of us who purchase based on price/performance for our needs it doesn't actually matter whose name is on the box.

I can't speak for everyone, but I find it very hard to understand how anyone could care for either company past what they're getting from them. Do you go to picnics with the PR folks, do they help you out when you're coming up short on the bills? Do they buy you a drink at the local pub?

We're talking about billion dollar corporations and some of you seem to think they care about you. I'm trying to figure out where some of you may have gone wrong to develop a relationship with a corporation - it's almost "mac" like in blind devotion to a company that wants nothing from you but your money.
I am hesitant to buy anything from Intel because of their anti-competitive tactics and because they over-charge for their CPUs (will admit that compared to Phenom II X6, Sandy Bridge is a good deal, but PHII is old... Bulldozer will bring back the great value that AMD is admired for). Keep in mind, though, that my main daily use computer (not my sig rig) actually uses Intel and Nvidia. But as a corporation, I do believe that Intel is much more "evil" than AMD. AMD never tries to, for example, stop OEMs from making computers with Nvidia graphics cards and/or Intel processors in them. But Intel has done that.

Basically, I firmly believe that AMD has better ethics than Intel. But that doesn't mean I'll never buy anything Intel.

And I do use a Mac. Not because I just love Apple so much. Because I think OS X is a better operating system than Windows, and because I think that the MacBook Pro is overall the best laptop on the market (great screen, thin, light, good keyboard, exceptional trackpad, great battery life, wonderful operating system, and still quite fast).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
They're assuming it has "bad IPC" due to the fact it is an 8 core,and basing their speculations on current gen AMD processors that have little IPC gain as more cores are added.
If that's really what they think then they really shouldn't be talking at all about CPU architectures... because they obviously don't know or understand anything.
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post #134 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post
They're assuming it has "bad IPC" due to the fact it is an 8 core,and basing their speculations on current gen AMD processors that have little IPC gain as more cores are added.

Their CPU is also entirely different, but those 8 extra threads also boost benchmark scores. It's like trying to compare a Porsche engine to a Lamborghini engine. In real world use,hyper threading can actually hurt performance. AMD's cluster based multiprocessing is supposed to improve performance. I can't wait for NDA to be lifted either,we'll finally know whether BD will deliver or be a flop. With 5 years of work,BD couldn't be any worse.
exactly ... thats why they disable it ... so it wouldnt hinder performance


LOL
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post #135 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sty View Post
exactly ... thats why they disable it ... so it wouldnt hinder performance


LOL
HyperThreading is crap. 30% performance gain in or so programs that actually use it... BUT:

-Makes the CPU run hot
-Most programs don't actually use it
-You can overclock higher if you disable it, and then the performance gain would be noticed in all programs
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post #136 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
HyperThreading is crap. 30% performance gain in or so programs that actually use it... BUT:

-Makes the CPU run hot
-Most programs don't actually use it
-You can overclock higher if you disable it, and then the performance gain would be noticed in all programs
You could say the exact same thing about adding more cores.

Gives a X% amount more performance (note, depending on the core count, usually more or less 30%) in programs that use the cores.

-The extra core(s) make the CPU run hotter.
-Most programs don't really use the core(s).
-You could overclock further without the extra core(s).

I can do it too.

But seriously, more cores and technologies like HT are always welcome imo.
 
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post #137 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
You could say the exact same thing about adding more cores.

Gives a X% amount more performance (note, depending on the core count, usually more or less 30%) in programs that use the cores.

-The extra core(s) make the CPU run hotter.
-Most programs don't really use the core(s).
-You could overclock further without the extra core(s).

I can do it too.

But seriously, more cores and technologies like HT are always welcome imo.
WAY more programs can take advantage of extra cores. And not only that, extra cores are much faster than HyperThreading.

One Bulldozer module delivers roughly the performance of 1.8 cores with similar IPC, according to AMD.
Real world experience tells us HyperThreading at its best will only deliver the performance of 1.3 cores. And in many programs, HT actually decreases performance.
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post #138 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
WAY more programs can take advantage of extra cores. And not only that, extra cores are much faster than HyperThreading.

One Bulldozer module delivers roughly the performance of 1.8 cores with similar IPC, according to AMD.
Real world experience tells us HyperThreading at its best will only deliver the performance of 1.3 cores. And in many programs, HT actually decreases performance.
Of course adding a X number of cores is better than adding a X number of 'hyperthreading threads'.

But what you have to remember is that hyperthreaded intel processors have double the amount of threads than cores. When you add real cores on the other hand you will not see a 100% increase in the core count nowadays. Because of this you really can't compare adding HT and adding real cores on a single 'ht thread'/core level. For the amount of cores you could add you'll have more 'ht threads'.
 
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post #139 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post
Of course adding a X number of cores is better than adding a X number of 'hyperthreading threads'.

But what you have to remember is that hyperthreaded intel processors have double the amount of threads than cores. When you add real cores on the other hand you will not see a 100% increase in the core count nowadays. Because of this you really can't compare adding HT and adding real cores on a single 'ht thread'/core level. For the amount of cores you could add you'll have more 'ht threads'.

huh???


so they have 4 real cores and 8 hyperthreaded cores more???


doesnt compute ....


real cores gives a 100% theoratical boost bump in Gflop/s


HT will never will .... because HT shares the pipeline of the real core ...

if we kept adding deneb cores on top of another we would see a bigger gain in gflop/s


and btw HT takes about the same amount of die space as amd's module in bulldozer .... yet bulldozer should have better performance ... all in theory right now
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post #140 of 201
there is not 1 single real benchmark of finished BD out yet
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TPU]19 September Launch Day for AMD Bulldozer FX Series Processors