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Tired of all the misinformation... Can someone help?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I can't seem to get a consistent answer when it comes to my overclock. Half the people i've spoken to say that LLC should not be enabled at all with offset voltage while the other half claims that it helps protect the CPU from harmful spikes when enabled. Some claim that c3 and c6 should not be enabled with offset voltage but others claim it should. Some say that VRM Frequency should be manually set to 350 and others claim it should be left on auto. The list goes on and on. I realize that a lot of this has to do with personal preference but I just want to ensure that I don't have any unnecessary settings that are harmful to my stability/CPU.

I am *able* to get my system stable without LLC but my voltages jump around way too much. One second it will be at 1.296 then drop to 1.288 then it will jump to 1.3v or something like that which requires more voltage than with LLC.

Bottom line my question is this: How harmful/helpful is LLC? Is it bad for the CPU if I have it one while using offset voltage? Is it dangerous? Should I just say screw it all and stick to manual voltage? Are any of my other settings screwed up? Although I appreciate everyone's help, please only comment if you're fairly certain you know what you're talking about. Reposting something you read on a random forum once is exactly how I got into this mess in the first place. A lot of the norms from before SB aren't accurate now. >.<. Thanks in advance.

Here any current settings:

Idle: 0.944V / 25C
Prime95 load: 1.296v / 55C
IntelBurnTestv2 load: 1.296v - 1.320v (jumps around a bit every once in a while but passes 100 runs) / 62c

45 x 100
LLC: Ultra High (75%)
VRM Frequency: Auto (Changing to Manual: 350)
CPU current Capacity: 100%
Phase Control: Extreme
Voltage: Offset -0.050
CPU C1E: Auto
C3: Auto
C6: Auto
intel Enhanced Speedstep Technology: Enabled
Adaptive Thermal Monitor: Disabled (Changing to Enabled)
Duty Control: TProbe
Edited by nezzarix - 7/26/11 at 8:22pm
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post #2 of 16
I've used LLC on all my builds, and with such a small offset, your in no danger at all. it's when the offset is higher, and your pushing your rig in a benching contest, going past 5GHz, and full stress!

Please wait for more input, from the very experienced people, but I have been around for years, and have been building, and benching for years!

So in my opinion, you should enable LLC

Good luck!

Edit:
btw, your settings look good!
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post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inteller View Post
I've used LLC on all my builds, and with such a small offset, your in no danger at all. it's when the offset is higher, and your pushing your rig in a benching contest, going past 5GHz, and full stress!

Please wait for more input, from the very experienced people, but I have been around for years, and have been building, and benching for years!

So in my opinion, you should enable LLC

Good luck!

Edit:
btw, your settings look good!
Thanks for the reply. I've seen LLC being used scornfully in many builds but there are those that swear it's horrible regardless of voltage. Perhaps they know something I don't...
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post #4 of 16
LOL

Heres how it goes...when LLC was introduced, some CPUs were being killed due to large voltage spikes, however LLC has gotton much better over the years but it isnt perfect. ASUS gives us a large variety of voltage options, some work better then others. ASUS reccomends LLC be set to ultra high. Heres the key...you need to be monitoring any LLC setting you use and find out which works best. Get a program that can monitor vcore and record it (ie.HWinfo64) and watch for those large voltage spikes.
C3 and C6 are deep CPU sleep states (not 100% sure) and may cause BSODs when using offset voltage, so it is generally regarded to disable these...test it out though and find out for yourself

EDIT: ASUS reccomends VRM be manually set to 350 for "This is best for sustaining stability at multis of 48x or above. This is key especially for running unrealistic loading testing such as prime or linx." per ASUS tech
Edited by The Viper - 7/26/11 at 8:13pm
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post #5 of 16
Nice thread OP. I'am looking forward for some usefull answers.

I'am also trying to get a stable offset oc at 4.5ghz.


Current settings:

Load-line Calibration: ultra high
Vrm frequency: 350 ( not sure if this is necessary )
Phase C: Extreme
Duty C: Extreme¸
Cpu current: 120% ( also not sure about that )
offset: minus 0.040
Cpu c1E: enable
c3:Auto
c6:Auto

I'am getting 1.312 - 1.328 vcore running blend test on prime95.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
LOL

Heres how it goes...when LLC was introduced, some CPUs were being killed due to large voltage spikes, however LLC has gotton much better over the years but it isnt perfect. ASUS gives us a large variety of voltage options, some work better then others. ASUS reccomends LLC be set to ultra high. Heres the key...you need to be monitoring any LLC setting you use and find out which works best. Get a program that can monitor vcore and record it (ie.HWinfo64) and watch for those large voltage spikes.
C3 and C6 are deep CPU sleep states (not 100% sure)

EDIT: ASUS reccomends VRM be manually set to 350 for "This is best for sustaining stability at multis of 48x or above. This is key especially for running unrealistic loading testing such as prime or linx." per ASUS tech
Thanks for your input, I downloaded HWInfo64 and it does the job of 2-3 of my other programs Quite the gem. Hmmm, think I should set my VRM to 350 at 45x just in case? Pretty close to 4.8Ghz...
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post #7 of 16
also check out turrican9's The Official ASUS P8P67/P8Z68 Series Owners Club it talks about some of the issues with offset and c3 c6 states (1st page)

EDIT: set it to 350
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post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Viper View Post
also check out turrican9's The Official ASUS P8P67/P8Z68 Series Owners Club it talks about some of the issues with offset and c3 c6 states (1st page)

EDIT: set it to 350
Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to check the thread in more detail. From what i've gathered, quite a few people have Intel Adaptive Thermal Monitor enabled. Looks like I'll be enabling it on my motherboard. I'll be sure to disable c3/c6 if I encounter unresolvable issues.
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post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzarix View Post
Thanks for the reply. I've seen LLC being used scornfully in many builds but there are those that swear it's horrible regardless of voltage. Perhaps they know something I don't...
Like I said, in my opinion, it's good to use for a reasonable everyday overclock. But for benchmarking, and your pushing your system to it's limits, it is best left disabled

I use 100% LLC
My voltages varies by .03v to .04v

With it disabled, it does just what your saying!
Very jumpy!
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post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzarix View Post
I am *able* to get my system stable without LLC but my voltages jump around way too much.
By what criteria are you defining "way too much"?

LLC alters the Intel specified load line that, by design, drops voltage when current draw increases, in order to ensure that the resulting spike that will happen when a load is removed does not exceed the VID set in the BIOS.

VID (or BIOS vcore) is not meant to be the level of voltage continually delivered to the CPU, it's a maximum cap, spikes and all. By default, idle voltage will be slightly less than this, and load voltage can be much less, by design.

LLC owes it's existence to people misunderstanding what their VID/vcore settings are supposed to do. People saw it as a flaw, and wanted a "fix". Motherboard makers complied. The end result was delusion; people were putting more voltage into their chips, but with a smaller number listed in the BIOS.

There is a more recent justification for LLC that argues that since modern high-end boards have over engineered VRMs compared to Intel's spec, and can probably adjust more rapidly to changing loads with less of a spike, that Intel's load line is too conservative and only results in needlessly high idle voltages during OCing. I can buy this, to an extent.

Completely removing the load line, to the point where there is no negative offset, and no dip under load, is stupid. Even with the best VRM ever put on a board, there is going to be some transient spiking when a load is abruptly removed. So, all this extreme of LLC does is throw more vcore at your chip without you actually telling it to. You may as well have just set vcore higher.

A moderate setting, on a good board, makes sense. At high current draws, the Intel load line can be quite extreme (up to and beyond a tenth of a volt), and it's unlikely that there would be such an enormous spike on a board with a high-quality VRM designed to handle such loads. So, VID and can serve it's purpose with a lesser load line.
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