New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

how to get linux - Page 3

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
What? The truth is the exact opposite of this statement. Ubuntu is a GNU/Linux distribution; it can do the same things as pretty much any other distro in the proper hands. The only [major] difference is that it comes packaged with a bunch of bloat (and Canonical garbage), which maybe or may not be what the user wants. An experienced GNU/Linux user that just might not have the time to setup his entire install can still effectively use Ubuntu. It doesn't make him a noob, it makes somebody that can effectively work with Ubuntu's philosophy.
On a new machine, even mine, the amount of bloat you see isn't that bad. If you have low end hardware I would worry about it, though I've ran Ubuntu 10.04 and 11.04 and they both ran decent enough. Not to say they weren't bloated but not really THAT bloated. No more than what you would expect from Windows or anything else that has an OS designed to be extremely user friendly.

The other terrible thing you just did was not add the next sentence to the quote: "You can get down and dirty but you aren't forced too" That is where I say you can get down and dirty, like every other distro. The problem is you aren't forced too, you have no real push to set anything up manually.

=( Mis-quoting, especially when I said the exact same thing you said (not the bloat) is not only wrong but deceiving. I don't like having to respond to people just because they decide to slander my image by leaving something out, it shows laziness and more.
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
On a new machine, even mine, the amount of bloat you see isn't that bad. If you have low end hardware I would worry about it, though I've ran Ubuntu 10.04 and 11.04 and they both ran decent enough. Not to say they weren't bloated but not really THAT bloated. No more than what you would expect from Windows or anything else that has an OS designed to be extremely user friendly.

The other terrible thing you just did was not add the next sentence to the quote: "You can get down and dirty but you aren't forced too" That is where I say you can get down and dirty, like every other distro. The problem is you aren't forced too, you have no real push to set anything up manually.

=( Mis-quoting, especially when I said the exact same thing you said (not the bloat) is not only wrong but deceiving. I don't like having to respond to people just because they decide to slander my image by leaving something out, it shows laziness and more.
Apologies on simply quoting part of the post. I still believe there is incentive to get down and dirty however, because with most online guides to do things for Ubuntu at least mention some terminal usage (mostly because it's harder to mess up copy and pasting commands then searching around a GUI). Ubuntu still isn't at the point where you can completely ignore the lower level of the OS, but that definitely is Canonical's ultimate goal. Ubuntu-users nowadays are still being primed to become more experienced users, however maybe not in a few years.

As for bloat in Ubuntu, usually when I am referring to bloat, I'm also referring to any software I don't necessarily want; not what will slow down a low-performance system. So basically, to me, almost all of Ubuntu is bloat, because I don't like any of their default software choices and I know so do lots of other people. This may not be true to another person, but go look at a couple Ubuntu installs at your local university and you'll see people have changed out quite a few of the defaults. You can't blame Ubuntu too much for trying to assume what people will use, but cleaning up the defaults is still a chore for the user nonetheless.
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
Apologies on simply quoting part of the post. I still believe there is incentive to get down and dirty however, because with most online guides to do things for Ubuntu at least mention some terminal usage (mostly because it's harder to mess up copy and pasting commands then searching around a GUI). Ubuntu still isn't at the point where you can completely ignore the lower level of the OS, but that definitely is Canonical's ultimate goal. Ubuntu-users nowadays are still being primed to become more experienced users, however maybe not in a few years.

As for bloat in Ubuntu, usually when I am referring to bloat, I'm also referring to any software I don't necessarily want; not what will slow down a low-performance system. So basically, to me, almost all of Ubuntu is bloat, because I don't like any of their default software choices and I know so do lots of other people. This may not be true to another person, but go look at a couple Ubuntu installs at your local university and you'll see people have changed out quite a few of the defaults. You can't blame Ubuntu too much for trying to assume what people will use, but cleaning up the defaults is still a chore for the user nonetheless.
Yeah but from a user friendly perspective Ubuntu offers everything. Obviously you don't need that, so you consider it bloat. However if your into reviewing things you really shouldn't use your own opinion. You start to give off reviews based on what you think the OS should be offering regardless of what the user base needs. Ubuntu users need all the fun GUI stuff, that's cool. It works relatively quick and doesn't slow down a modern machine, the same machines they are designing this to be ran on. They offer other builds, like Xubuntu, whatever you prefer. That's still just the fancy little interface, the innards of Ubuntu aren't that bad.

I don't know how getting down and dirty is insensitive? Because this is a "nerd" forum? If I were to go into an auto shop they'd be all about getting down and dirty. Just because I do tech crap doesn't mean I have to talk all nice and pleasant. Compared to GUIs and nice pretty pictures the CLI work is pretty unpleasant. Even though I like CLI I'll admit it's not the most aesthetic way to maneuver around an OS. It's like getting down and dirty, you get the job done but it doesn't look good.
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Yeah, I'll admit Ubuntu is good for people who are starting off. It really doesn't have super bloat, but it is n00b. You can get down and dirty but you aren't forced too, that is why I shun it a tad. However I will openly admit it's a great "never used linux" distro, it will always be on the top of that list. [edit] Mint might actually be #1 now, since it's literally everything out of the box. =P
I have a friend running Mint and he says he loves it. I may look into it later even if it's just to load it up and see what I think.

The thing about being a "n00b" is that everyone was new once, no one came out of the womb compiling a Linux kernel. I don't think anyway So you make a good point that there are different lists depending on what is needed for each user. Which is another thing I love about Linux. We can actually have a conversation about what a user needs and then go to the shelf for the closest match and then customize. With Windows, there is no question phase....it's being handed a box and told to sit down, shut up, and use it.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I don't know how getting down and dirty is insensitive? Because this is a "nerd" forum? If I were to go into an auto shop they'd be all about getting down and dirty. Just because I do tech crap doesn't mean I have to talk all nice and pleasant. Compared to GUIs and nice pretty pictures the CLI work is pretty unpleasant. Even though I like CLI I'll admit it's not the most aesthetic way to maneuver around an OS. It's like getting down and dirty, you get the job done but it doesn't look good.
Agree there. Although it is fun to show off CLI skills to those that never left Windows.
Edited by Thumper - 7/28/11 at 6:36pm
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
I have a friend running Mint and he says he loves it. I may look into it later even if it's just to load it up and see what I think.

The thing about being a "n00b" is that everyone was new once, no one came out of the womb compiling a Linux kernel. I don't think anyway So you make a good point that there are different lists depending on what is needed for each user. Which is another thing I love about Linux. We can actually have a conversation about what a user needs and then go to the shelf for the closest match and then customize. With Windows, there is no question phase....it's being handed a box and told to sit down, shut up, and use it.

EDIT:


Agree there. Although it is fun to show off CLI skills to those that never left Windows.
I also don't think a user requires anything more than Ubuntu to get into the harder subjects, so in some ways I do agree with Jimi. The hardest subject in linux that you'll ever get into is compiling by source and configuring programs manually. Which you can start doing on Ubuntu, that is how I progressed. The only reason why I say Ubuntu is a noobish distro is mainly because it does everything in a nice clean easy format. You don't have to deal with fdisk, setting up hardware, stuff like that.

Heck, the distro I use on a regular basis isn't even that difficult. I don't see the point in wasting my time setting things up, it's not worth it. I've learned all that, I can troubleshoot most problems myself. So what if I use a really good package manager and automated stuff. Whatev, it gives me a linux system that works and performs on par for what I do every day.
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
Yeah but from a user friendly perspective Ubuntu offers everything. Obviously you don't need that, so you consider it bloat. However if your into reviewing things you really shouldn't use your own opinion. You start to give off reviews based on what you think the OS should be offering regardless of what the user base needs. Ubuntu users need all the fun GUI stuff, that's cool. It works relatively quick and doesn't slow down a modern machine, the same machines they are designing this to be ran on. They offer other builds, like Xubuntu, whatever you prefer. That's still just the fancy little interface, the innards of Ubuntu aren't that bad.
Let me start off by saying, I'm not pushing Ubuntu to be dropped to just CLI or anything. Despite using mostly CLI, I still do have my preference of GUI solutions and that is to what I am referring. I understand that my ideal environment is not the same as the average joe. I wasn't going that far. Basically, all I'm saying is that the default software selection does work, but they aren't the software lots of people want to use; that's why Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc... all exist. You can't cover all the bases, however. If I had a fresh install of Ubuntu, I'd find myself removing lots of the default software and either replacing it with something I find more effective or just plain removing it. I'm just saying that Canonical has poor taste in their software selection. You can even relate: I know that you like synaptic over the Ubuntu Software Center. It's basically the same thing, and Synaptic is drastically better, however Ubuntu Software Center persists due to Canonical push.
post #27 of 33
Been rockin' ubuntu for a while now and love it. Stay away from 11.04 for now though... its still crap.
 
Gsvlip Dudyrm
(15 items)
 
Oda'maksv
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @ 4.5 1.312 load Zotac Z77 ITX Wifi GTX 1070 Gaming 2126/2249 w/ Hybrid cooler TridentX 16GB 2400MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB Seagate 2TB H105 EVGA Hybrid GPU cooler 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Asus MG279Q - 24" 144Hz 1080p Filco Majestic II w/ Cherry Reds Seasonic X 760W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfelix Prodigy Logitech G400 Razer Goliath AKG A701 
AudioAudio
JDS Labs Objective 2 JDS Labs ODAC 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 750 3.99 (190x21) 1.376v Load ASUS P7P55d-E Pro GTX 670 FTW <- Poor overclocker :( 8GB (4x2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Samsung 830 Evo 128GB 2x 2TB  Some DVD drive OSX 10.10.4 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Asus 1080P Crap TX 750 HAF 922 G400s 
Mouse PadOther
Apple Keyboard Xbox One controler 
CPURAMHard DriveHard Drive
C2D 2,26GHz under volted @ .978v 8GB  Crucial M4 64GB SSD 500GB Scorpio Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardMouse
OS X 10.0 1280x800 Built-in Trackpad 
Audio
Built-in 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Gsvlip Dudyrm
(15 items)
 
Oda'maksv
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @ 4.5 1.312 load Zotac Z77 ITX Wifi GTX 1070 Gaming 2126/2249 w/ Hybrid cooler TridentX 16GB 2400MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB Seagate 2TB H105 EVGA Hybrid GPU cooler 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Asus MG279Q - 24" 144Hz 1080p Filco Majestic II w/ Cherry Reds Seasonic X 760W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfelix Prodigy Logitech G400 Razer Goliath AKG A701 
AudioAudio
JDS Labs Objective 2 JDS Labs ODAC 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 750 3.99 (190x21) 1.376v Load ASUS P7P55d-E Pro GTX 670 FTW <- Poor overclocker :( 8GB (4x2GB) G.Skill DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
Samsung 830 Evo 128GB 2x 2TB  Some DVD drive OSX 10.10.4 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
Asus 1080P Crap TX 750 HAF 922 G400s 
Mouse PadOther
Apple Keyboard Xbox One controler 
CPURAMHard DriveHard Drive
C2D 2,26GHz under volted @ .978v 8GB  Crucial M4 64GB SSD 500GB Scorpio Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardMouse
OS X 10.0 1280x800 Built-in Trackpad 
Audio
Built-in 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1nUrThr3t View Post
Ok this may be a super dumb question and ill prob get burned, but oh well.

What about buying say snow leopard or whatever from apple for $30?
How does it compare to these different distros that are free?
You cant install OSX on a PC.. Technically you can, but it can get extremely complicated..
iSeven
(16 items)
 
Big Red
(11 items)
 
Ultimate rig 2013
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Gigabyte z77X-UD5H R9 290x HyperX Red 12 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
WD Caviar Blue 500GB SanDisk UltraPlus 240GB Corsair H100i Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
VG248QE VE248H x2 Ducky Shine Corsair 750w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT H230 White Razer Ouroborous SteelSeries QcK+ Xonar DG 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320 ASRock 970 extreme 4 XFX Radeon HD 6850 XMS3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Western Digital Blue Windows 7 x64 Acer 21 inch x3 G510 
PowerCaseMouse
Cooler master 750w None ATM G9x 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8350 ASRock 990FX Extreme 9 Asus Radeon HD 7970 32 GB Kingston 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Force GT 240 none Hyper 212 Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 27 inch Razer blackwidow Silverstone Strider Switch 810 
Mouse
Razer Naga Epic 
  hide details  
Reply
iSeven
(16 items)
 
Big Red
(11 items)
 
Ultimate rig 2013
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Gigabyte z77X-UD5H R9 290x HyperX Red 12 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
WD Caviar Blue 500GB SanDisk UltraPlus 240GB Corsair H100i Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
VG248QE VE248H x2 Ducky Shine Corsair 750w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT H230 White Razer Ouroborous SteelSeries QcK+ Xonar DG 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320 ASRock 970 extreme 4 XFX Radeon HD 6850 XMS3 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Western Digital Blue Windows 7 x64 Acer 21 inch x3 G510 
PowerCaseMouse
Cooler master 750w None ATM G9x 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8350 ASRock 990FX Extreme 9 Asus Radeon HD 7970 32 GB Kingston 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Force GT 240 none Hyper 212 Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 27 inch Razer blackwidow Silverstone Strider Switch 810 
Mouse
Razer Naga Epic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 33
Ubuntu 10.10 is the choice of many of the folding crowd on the site. I like it and even 11.04.I also am a Fedora 15 fan. My 2 cents is don't try and make whatever you chose windows,what I mean is,don't waste time trying to make windows programs work through wine, just find a application that does what you want in the distro of choice without using wine.
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
WC Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-930@4.05GHz ASUS P6X58D-Preminum XFX GeForce 275 896mb 6GB Corsair TR3X6G1600C8D 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD 150gb Raptor LightScan Win 7 64-bit Acer 22" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
G15 Corsair HX620W Antec 1200 several various 
Mouse Pad
none 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
Let me start off by saying, I'm not pushing Ubuntu to be dropped to just CLI or anything. Despite using mostly CLI, I still do have my preference of GUI solutions and that is to what I am referring. I understand that my ideal environment is not the same as the average joe. I wasn't going that far. Basically, all I'm saying is that the default software selection does work, but they aren't the software lots of people want to use; that's why Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc... all exist. You can't cover all the bases, however. If I had a fresh install of Ubuntu, I'd find myself removing lots of the default software and either replacing it with something I find more effective or just plain removing it. I'm just saying that Canonical has poor taste in their software selection. You can even relate: I know that you like synaptic over the Ubuntu Software Center. It's basically the same thing, and Synaptic is drastically better, however Ubuntu Software Center persists due to Canonical push.
I'm aware of that, but their target audience isn't me and it isn't you. I would never install Ubuntu and run it, unless I wanted to see where they were for some random reason. I've moved on to a bigger and better distro, mainly because now I understand where I am in Linux. I started out with Knoppix, an all in one LiveCD. Looking back now, Knoppix has (had) a lot of software that I really don't use. Does that mean Knoppix is bad, on the contrary because it opened the door for me to move from that to Debian. This is the same for Ubuntu, I see it as a good transitional distro for many people.

I also believe the Software Center could be a great thing and I can see why they use it. It is also another thing that is "noobish" about Ubuntu. People won't know the names of programs or what they do. Synaptic can be a little vague at times, not really giving you much about a package. The Software Center puts them all in [nice] categories and looks more...welcoming... ect... ect... Everything in Ubuntu plays a part in helping the user out and holding their hand. This is the same concept in Windows. It's why I understand how popular windows can be, despite the lack of real customization. It's extremely user friendly, which is very good.

Though saying I started out on Knoppix is somewhat a lie. I started out on RH years before Knoppix was around. However that machine didn't have the internet and it was a brief encounter, I had some other distro experience but nothing major. Knoppix let me do it as a teen on my own time, eventually installing to the hard drive. I then moved to a bunch of other distro's and eventually got suggested Debian plain. I haven't found anything better since.

[edit] I will agree though the Software Center is bloated. At least it is poorly optimized, that was the last time I checked and was in 11.04 so that goes with a grain of salt. I was using 11.04 right when it came out, I'm sure it has settled down a bit as far as stability.

[edit: Insight] A lot of this comes from how I used to wonder why people thought life was hard. More to the point, I never understood how some people couldn't understand certain concepts. Math based sciences, chem, bio, stuff like that. Eventually I had to realize that either some people were not as intelligent as me or they couldn't do things the same way I can. I'm an artist, I still believe everyone can draw, they just can't all draw as good as me. =( Eventually I started to except that as more of a truth, we aren't all created equally. Well, we are created with equal potential but somewhere in life that changes and we start to drift towards individual things. Some people need Ubuntu, whether I like it or not. Maybe you should start to look at things differently, start looking towards what other users will need. A programmer/designer doesn't write code to be specifically for them. They do, however they also have to think about the person who is going to be using this piece of software. Ubuntu targets a specific audience, they have their own philosophy. Just like I hate Arch for some of it's things, I do see why it's nice but I'll forever dislike it. I now recommend it though because I appreciate it's difficulty level and know that some people may enjoy it more than me.
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/29/11 at 12:56am
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Linux, Unix