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V-Dropped, Drooped and Kicked

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
ok, ok. I know it's been asked to death prolly. but I just want some clarity on this matter.

Is everyone OCing of the mindset that voltage protection is not necessary on the new 2500, 2600 K series, or am I just the proud owner of a shoddy mobo?

I start fiddling around with higher OC 46+ and am having a hard time nailing a 24/7 at those multis where the VCore respects the limits of the VID.

I use Real Temp VID reading and CPU-Z and mobo OC program to check VCore readings, and sure, the computer will do alright 95+% of the time, and I'm not talking about the voltage spikes either, but sometimes I see the VCore go over the VID and stay over for around 1 second or so. This happens whenever the load changes. Even on lower, milder OCs like 45x, everything is acceptable until I start encoding, and I see the same noise..

This is after reading about it here...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/6

I'm ok with OCing and even going for those higher speeds, except for this concern.

As it is, I have to settle for a small and conservative OC at stock voltages. Opinions, please!
Edited by malkion - 7/28/11 at 4:33am
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post #2 of 9
It's fine if your Vcore goes over the VID. VID is just what intel sets for that chip to run. My chip has a 1.150v VID. I myself don't use Offset voltage or any power features. I use Manual Voltage and set mine at 1.400v for my 24/7 5ghz overclock. I use Extreme LLC, so when I stress the cpu my voltage jumps up to 1.425v under load. This is the way I like my setup to run. With these setting I can run 15hrs of Prime blend with max temps under 60c with water.
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post #3 of 9
Thread Starter 
the vid on mine is 1.2260, and I'm not talking about a straight VCore over VID. It's the VID reading in Core Temp or Real Temp. When the cpu is underload, it fluctuates to whatever new VID setting, it feels it needs to execute. It's during this time, the VID fluctuates to 1.3411 @ 45x to 1.3311 for 43x, it's usually ok at these VIDs, but I notice when CPU requests say vid of only 1.2660, the Vcore reading in CPU-Z will say 1.288 then the VID will finally after a few seconds, jump up to a higher VID, or the VCore will finally start dropping to below 1.266 VID.
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post #4 of 9
Well that means it's working properly. You should check VID in the Bios before you overclock to see what it really is. I don't get what your trying to ask here. You only have 1 VID. If you overclock higher that intels spec, your VID will now be a higher voltage not a new VID.
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post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 
sigh, did you read the article?
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post #6 of 9
from core 2 duo, i7's, etc all have multiple VID's. Quote form intel core 2 duo technical white paper.

Quote:
The processor provides the ability to operate while transitioning to an adjacent VID and
its associated processor core voltage (VCC). This will represent a DC shift in the load
line. It should be noted that a low-to-high or high-to-low voltage state change may
result in as many VID transitions as necessary to reach the target core voltage.
Transitions above the specified VID are not permitted. Table 5 includes VID step sizes
and DC shift ranges.
Quote:
VRD11 architecture includes the Dynamic Voltage Identification (D-VID) feature set,
which enables the processor to reduce power consumption and processor
temperature. Reference VID codes are dynamically updated by the processor to the
VRD controller via the VID bus when a low power state is initiated. VID codes are
updated sequentially in 12.5 mV steps and are transmitted every 5 microseconds until
the final voltage code is encountered. Processors are capable of transitioning from
standard operational VID levels to either the VR11 or extended VR10 VID table
minimum values. They are also capable of returning to a higher VID code in a similar
manner.
and from core i7 including 2600k intel technical doc

Quote:
7.4 VCC Voltage Identification (VID)
The processor uses three signals for the serial voltage identification interface to support
automatic selection of voltages. Table 7-1 specifies the voltage level corresponding to
the eight bit VID value transmitted over serial VID. A ‘1’ in this table refers to a high
voltage level and a ‘0’ refers to a low voltage level. If the voltage regulation circuit
cannot supply the voltage that is requested, the voltage regulator must disable itself.
VID signals are CMOS push/pull drivers. Refer to Table 7-9 for the DC specifications for
these signals. The VID codes will change due to temperature and/or current load
changes in order to minimize the power of the part. A voltage range is provided in
Table 7-5. The specifications are set so that one voltage regulator can operate with all
supported frequencies.
Individual processor VID values may be set during manufacturing so that two devices
at the same core frequency may have different default VID settings. This is shown in
the VID range values in Table 7-5. The processor provides the ability to operate while
transitioning to an adjacent VID and its associated voltage. This will represent a DC
shift in the loadline.

VID changes on fly are normal, and based on power state of cpu, etc. Been that way a long time.

Vcore being higher than a particular VID state, I dont understand the concern or the relevance and it has nothing to do with overshoots in the anandtech article. Overshoot voltages you CAN NOT measure or see unless using a very expensive oscilloscope capable of capturing waveform readings in ms, not in the 1 second intervals being read from sensors on board. And overshoots always happen every time you transition from load to idle, regardless of your settings stock or not, only way to stop them is to turn off your computer, just you cant see them.

Not only are the VID changes normal, but the vcore changes you are seeing are also normal, ie vdroop, vdrop or if you use LLC highest setting you may increase on load.

If you dont want things changing, turn off all power states, set overclock settings manually, especially volts manually. Or let them change as designed.
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post #7 of 9
Thread Starter 
so since you can't see it, when the article says it's bad, it's ok to actually not worry about it. kinda like a fast car with no muffler driving down the street, but inside a computer case. that it?
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post #8 of 9
Stop panicing. That Vcore is nothing. Quit your whinning and stop worrying about overshoot. Overshoot even happens at stock settings. So get over it. Just pump some more voltage into it. 1.3v is nothing.
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post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by malkion View Post
so since you can't see it, when the article says it's bad, it's ok to actually not worry about it. kinda like a fast car with no muffler driving down the street, but inside a computer case. that it?
The only thing to take from that article is whatever load vcore core you use, actual voltage is slightly higher from overshoots. Overshoots are not intrinsically bad, just need to know they exist and account for them.

For example:
If max 24/7 vcore you want your chip to get is 1.45 volts, then

option 1) set bios to 1.45V LLC OFF, and your load vcore will droop to 1.4 and overshoots to 1.45.

option 2) set bios to 1.40 LLC ON, and your load vcore will still be 1.4 and overshoots still to 1.45.

No difference between the two, except option 1 LLC OFF may be useful for mission critical solutions where they need to know max vcore via bios setting. And overclockers may prefer option 2 LLC ON, to avoid the unnecessary higher vcore at idle and annoying droop of vcore at load.
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