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[In] 8 Core Bulldozer Price Same As Sandy Bridge 2600K - Page 22

post #211 of 414
OT
Personally I would of owned up and taken the moral high ground whether that even meant that I would lose my job. But that is just me, I couldn't be the cause of another persons un-employment.

It's like how businesses quite often hire incompetent staff these days to save a few dollars in wages.

Eg: A friend of mine was in Dick Smith Electronics the other day looking at Ipod in car docks for his partner, another customer came in looking in that area also. Anyway he said that 5 minutes had passed and a staff member finally showed up to assist him an "EMO" looking kid was the description I got, and he overheard the customer asking about a car dock that transmitted to an FM radio.

The staff member said "Sorry we don't stock those" no more than 3 feet away from him was car docks that transmitted an FM signal, so my friend picked up the dock told the staff member "Have a look next time, you incompetent moron" and gave the dock to the customer. My mate went on to say that the customer put that dock back on the shelf and said thanks for the help but I am not buying it from here.

EDIT: Is this the attitude of the new generation ?
post #212 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by smash_mouth01 View Post
Which lost a lot of respect for them, and before you go on ahead and say AMD is guilty of stuff also, I know this, big companies are guilty of a lot of things.



So I am guessing that your the type of guy that if you worked on assembly line and you stuffed up and it caused a huge delay that you would blame the person next to you.

"win by any means necessary" "keep your job by any means necessary"

EDIT: Is this the attitude of the new generation ?

The point remains that a group found it unethical and Intel got fined 2 B. Did they pay it because the had a moment of clarity or guilt, I don't think so. Intel would of done the math and realised that they would lose more if they didn't pay out and went through a drawn out court case.
In which AMD would of still one but at a higher price.
Just because many companies work that way, it doesn't mean it's ok for such a large influential tech company to do. Back in the P4 vs. A64 days,Intel cut deals and made the OEM's use their product,pretty much the equivalent of Intel punching a cheap shot at AMD which probably still affects them,even worse if Intel is still selling chips to OEM's for next to nothing.
Intel having to pay 2 billion in fines is probably nothing to them. The attitude of "it doesn't matter how they have more money,they still have more money" is just sad.
Intel also tried to prevent Nvidia from using graphics &chipset solutions on their boards,and kill off the PCI-E slot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smash_mouth01 View Post

It could be the fact that AMD are so tight lipped because they want it to be a cold wet fish slapped across Intels face.....Once again pure speculation.

This is true but what did they do to get there? I'll give you a hint the R&D money probably came from unfavorable activities......this is speculation.

Eg: Your running a race and winning(AMD) then the person coming second(Intel) grabs your shirt and pulls you backwards so they get the 1st placing.
Exactly.
Edit - @ the mod who cleaned this thread of the "NO U" bickering,thank you.
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post #213 of 414
But on topic, This will be interesting considering that in effect the Bulldozer looks to be the equivalent of an Intel with hyper threading on at all times. So I wonder how that translates into real world performance for all applications that this CPU will be used for, not just gaming.
Edited by smash_mouth01 - 7/29/11 at 7:34pm
post #214 of 414
ill either be buying the FX-6120 or the SB 2500k equivalent of IB.

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post #215 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinny1 View Post
ill either be buying the fx-6120 or the sb 2500k equivalent of ib.

4500k :d
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post #216 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
Even if there is no improvement in the execution units and pipelines over Phenom II there will be a ~30% improvement in IPC. This is undeniable.

Phenom II's integer cores have three pipelines.
Bulldozer's integer cores have four pipelines.

Phenom II IPC: ~3
Bulldozer IPC: ~4
Not necessarily, it may not scale linearly. For example the Phenom II is not fully utilized and the BD may not be fully utilized. If the pipelines are fully utilized predictors are accurate BD will exceed Phenom II by possible more.

Math
Phenom II 3 pipelines @ .75 Utilization 2.25
BD 4 pipelines @ .80 Utilization 3.6
Difference 2.25< 3.6 by 60% in theory with all other factors the same
Note the other factors are not the same most are better some are worst f.g.
Prefetch better
Division worst with current software

Can not gauge performance on a particular subcomponent as the overall structure need to be evaluated.
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post #217 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmon View Post
Not necessarily, it may not scale linearly. For example the Phenom II is not fully utilized and the BD may not be fully utilized. If the pipelines are fully utilized predictors are accurate BD will exceed Phenom II by possible more.

Math
Phenom II 3 pipelines @ .75 Utilization 2.25
BD 4 pipelines @ .80 Utilization 3.6
Difference 2.25< 3.6 by 60% in theory with all other factors the same
Note the other factors are not the same most are better some are worst f.g.
Prefetch better
Division worst with current software

Can not gauge performance on a particular subcomponent as the overall structure need to be evaluated.
Last time I checked Phenom II had better utilization than that. Also I am quite confident that BD's pipelines will scale better... after six years AMD better have found out how to do that. Also it might be a tad hypocritical for me to say this but AMD had beaten Intel in IPC consistently from, what, 1999(?) until 2006.

And 30% is a conservative estimate. I usually post more conservative estimates on here to avoid the accusations of "fanboy"
Edited by Usario - 7/29/11 at 8:44pm
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post #218 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
Last time I checked Phenom II had better utilization than that. Also I am quite confident that BD's pipelines will scale better... after six years AMD better have found out how to do that. Also it might be a tad hypocritical for me to say this but AMD had beaten Intel in IPC consistently from, what, 1999(?) until 2006.

And 30% is a conservative estimate. I usually post more conservative estimates on here to avoid the accusations of "fanboy"
depends upon the instruction set and cache misses. Think the worst possible instruction set with mutlple cache misses. Always unestimate and when a company overdeliver it reflects positively

I think BD will scale better also, but until it is tested and evaluated it is unknown
Edited by Kmon - 7/29/11 at 8:54pm
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post #219 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmon View Post
depends upon the instruction set and cache misses. Think the worst possible instruction set with mutlple cache misses. Alway unestimated and over deliver

I think BD will scale better also, but until it is tested and evaulated it is unknown
That's all true. I'm just basing my estimates on the assumption that it will scale as well as Phenom II... I doubt it'd be worse because if it was then AMD probably should've REALLY focused on making it better, and I won't say it's going to be better as any estimate of that would be way out there as right now we have little clue. Also BTW FMA instructions are looking great.

I agree we should wait for release... but some estimates couldn't hurt. And it'd be kind of wrong if we didn't have anyone countering the "Phenom and Phenom II sucked so this has to suck" posts.
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post #220 of 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post
That's all true. I'm just basing my estimates on the assumption that it will scale as well as Phenom II... I doubt it'd be worse because if it was then AMD probably should've REALLY focused on making it better, and I won't say it's going to be better as any estimate of that would be way out there as right now we have little clue. Also BTW FMA instructions are looking great.

I agree we should wait for release... but some estimates couldn't hurt. And it'd be kind of wrong if we didn't have anyone countering the "Phenom and Phenom II sucked so this has to suck" posts.
Yes the rumored performance of the FMA instructions are positive to say the least. Hopefully, the FMA instructions will be used.
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