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Idle BSODs and C-States - Page 2

post #11 of 20
I just turned those off that day in my previous post and I never had an issue again. System seems to run smoother and better with it off..

those= c3/c6
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post #12 of 20
So it sounds like, C1 and Speedstep should be on. But C3/C6 should be off or on auto.
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post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Yeah soldierblue I think so, that's not coming from me though (edit: about the speedstep c1e thing). I just keep hearing that over and over from others that tried to do it the old way that they had problems, I wish I knew why though.

Something I realized about LLC in relation to this problem:

Higher levels of LLC raise your idle voltage, but it seems that the voltage fluctuates a slight bit more the higher you go with it. I don't know why I didn't realize this before, but all this is, is good old integral control.

To get a better picture of what LLC is doing, see the picture I attached. Its not at all to scale but it illustrates it well. From wikipedia (I'm sorry I'm not a good writer or teacher), here is an explanation of how it works. In bold are my additional edits, and I switched the order of the 2 paragraphs so the average person can follow it better:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The integral term accelerates the movement of the process towards setpoint [desired voltage] and eliminates the residual steady-state error [Vdroop] that occurs with a pure proportional controller. However, since the integral term responds to accumulated errors from the past, it can cause the present value to overshoot the setpoint value. [the voltage spikes some people have complained about]

The contribution from the integral term is proportional to both the magnitude of the error and the duration of the error [error = desired/BIOS voltage - actual voltage]. The integral in a PID controller is the sum of the instantaneous error [discrete for digital systems] over time and gives the accumulated offset that should have been corrected previously. The accumulated error is then multiplied by the integral gain (Ki) [this is our LLC value] and added to the controller output.
Since I cant really tell that much about LLC other than the arbitrary levels 1 to 5 in BIOS, any of them could theoretically be optimal. The voltage spikes and underspikes occur too quickly to see it happening. It's also possible that "AUTO" is the best option, it just depends how its calculated, how high your Vcore is, etc etc. Its probably best just to play with it yourself and note the results.

Now, I hope you can see, there is MUCH more to stabilizing your computer than just Vcore. Things have changed now that its recommended to use power-saving features....

To be totally honest, all things considered, after 4.5ghz it really just doesn't seem worth it.

Edited by donkrx - 8/1/11 at 9:44am
    
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post #14 of 20
Hi donkrx,
Sorry to revive this week old thread. I came across you thread while googling about the same problems i experienced.

Ever since I got my Asrock Z68 mobo 2 weeks back I've been experiencing endless BSOD either during idle, internet surfing or watching a simple movie via VLC player, 25-30 runs on LinX and Prime95 no BSOD. As a seasoned X58 user i naturally disabled all the C-States settings when i first got in SB overclocking. While it transpires over the last 2 weeks i learnt that the more power savings feature I disable the more negative it turns out. By using Auto on most of the settings i noticed more stability.

I've made another interesting discovery with Asrock boards, I've been using LLC level 1 which is the most aggressive, I'm currently on level 3 LLC which seems to be slightly better, so far *fingers cross* no BSOD yet.

I'm not too sure if you have resolved your BSOD issues?
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldierblue View Post
So it sounds like, C1 and Speedstep should be on. But C3/C6 should be off or on auto.
THIS^

Please read this thread : http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/...wanna-cry.html
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post #16 of 20
been fiddling around with my overclock for days, i knew using offset i was overvolting massively because it just wasnt stable unless offset was close to VID (with manual i can get away with 1.31vcore, but with offset i have to use 1.35v)

i've just changed VRM frequency from auto to 350, and lowered the offset a good 0.04v, and prime95 seems very stable indeed (im still 100% ibt stable).... perhaps auto was too slow to react to the voltage changes, but a setting of 350 has made this rig appear solid now on what used to bluescreen almost instantly, the only other thing i changed was the power phases from optimized to extreme (though i don't think this makes a difference)

i will report back, maybe it's just luck, i hope not because this means i can get 6-7*C off my temps AND 0.05-0.06volts off the vcore ... what a dream
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post #17 of 20

that should help with idle / random bsods
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post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullydog View Post
Hi donkrx,
Sorry to revive this week old thread. I came across you thread while googling about the same problems i experienced.

Ever since I got my Asrock Z68 mobo 2 weeks back I've been experiencing endless BSOD either during idle, internet surfing or watching a simple movie via VLC player, 25-30 runs on LinX and Prime95 no BSOD. As a seasoned X58 user i naturally disabled all the C-States settings when i first got in SB overclocking. While it transpires over the last 2 weeks i learnt that the more power savings feature I disable the more negative it turns out. By using Auto on most of the settings i noticed more stability.

I've made another interesting discovery with Asrock boards, I've been using LLC level 1 which is the most aggressive, I'm currently on level 3 LLC which seems to be slightly better, so far *fingers cross* no BSOD yet.

I'm not too sure if you have resolved your BSOD issues?
I was actually just gonna post - yes I have resolved it by doing the things I talked about in this thread. Rock solid since, I just wanted to wait a bit to be more confident it was working. I'm now at 4.8ghz which I haven't even fully tested for stability, but still no random bsods.

I felt kinda stupid posting this a week later when I realized that actually a lot of people have already realized/learned this. I'm sorry you're having problems though, god is it frustrating, you're happily browsing or watching a simple video, and BAM shutdown.

Anyway - to your post:

For me, LLC settings of higher numbers are more aggressive (depending on how you define that term), unless for some weird reason they reversed it for the Z68 board. Higher numbers correspond to larger voltage fluctuations and less vdroop error at steady state which I call more aggressive. Lower LLC numbers correspond to a more gentle response and less voltage fluctuations but a bit more error steady state.

By more aggressive, what did you mean?

Are you used FIXED voltage? Because if you are, maybe try using Offset, get your load vcore where it needs to be and try LLC set to 3. I find LLC 3 and 4 are pretty good to use, seems to be the case for a lot of others as well. When you lower LLC, vdroop gets bigger so you then have to raise your Vcore in BIOS (to get the same stable load voltage) which ends up raising your idle voltage. This is something I played with to help with idle BSODs.... that being said, I don't know if the super low LLC values work. Maybe for you the response was so slow that it just doesn't reach stable voltage in time to do the work you're asking it to do.

As munaim1 pointed out, you'll also want to enable C1E and EIST. With Fixed voltage its recommended to leave C-states on Auto; with Offset disable them (C3/C6, P-state limit can be whatever really but I got it on C2 now).

As far as the rest of the settings I leave VCCSA (obvious) and VTT/VCCIO set to Auto. Some say increase VTT/VCCIO, I tried it and got no benefit or anything. I just leave it on Auto now because SB tends to behave if you use Auto.

So yeah, the big ones are C1E and EIST, and maybe at some point try Offset voltage.
    
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post #19 of 20
Many people need a little bump in VTT/VCCIO to get ful stability or to lower the vcore a little. Try setting it at 1.116 and seeing if you can gain a little headroom on the vcore. Also do you leave your CPU PLL at 1.832?
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post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
I have no issues with idle anymore, all I had to do was enable C1E & Speedstep (EIST too - mine is on though I'm not sure there is a bios setting for it).

I manual turned it on in bios, not auto but ON. I manually turned off C3 and C6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inteller View Post
I've notice that if you have C1E & EIST, and/or speed step, and then leave the C state on auto, I also have problems.

But once I choose C1, C3, or C6, instead of Auto, everything works fine.

?_?

EIST is Speedstep
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