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post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
Its simply that most of the packages have the same name. I'm not going to blacklist 1000 packages just to maintain Gnome 2.
...
But this hasn't occurred to the Arch devs. The fact that Ubuntu would rather design their own DE than use Gnome 3 apparently didn't tip them off.

But then the people who maintain Arch don't think at all. They'd rather update simply for the sake of updating. If Linus went insane and kernel 3.1 was just small program that did nothing but draw a giant ASCII penis on the screen, I have no reason to doubt that Arch would add it to the repo, rather than wait for the insanity to die down.
...
You've clearly said it yourself; you don't agree with Arch's update philosophy. Sounds like it's time you find a new distribution that will let you maintain old software. It doesn't matter to the Arch devs if the older software is better; Arch is meant to be a testing ground for the absolute latest technology, not a stable distribution that has developers preferred software.
post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 
The Arch philosophy is all about being simple and lightweight. Gnome 3 is none of those.

And the Arch devs have dropped packages for being poor quality before, like Catalyst.

I don't see why they couldn't just keep it in [testing] until its actually usable. In its current state its not even finished. Its more of cheap prototype hacked together to demonstrate features than an actual DE.

And Arch does have some degree of stability. If it was purely about being upstream then we wouldn't even have a [testing] repo. Packages would just get fired off to users as soon as they're released.
    
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post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post
The Arch philosophy is all about being simple and lightweight. Gnome 3 is none of those.

And the Arch devs have dropped packages for being poor quality before, like Catalyst.

I don't see why they couldn't just keep it in [testing] until its actually usable. In its current state its not even finished. Its more of cheap prototype hacked together to demonstrate features than an actual DE.

And Arch does have some degree of stability. If it was purely about being upstream then we wouldn't even have a [testing] repo. Packages would just get fired off to users as soon as they're released.
The Arch philosophy is speaking of the core distribution, not the software stack you choose for it. The reason why you see packages like Catalyst being dropped is basically due to having too few package maintainers, but at least they have their priorities straight. I've seen lots of semi-important packages get dropped off to the AUR for this reason. Arch is very much about being bleeding-edge, however the package maintainers try their best to stop things from breaking. The [testing] repo is used basically when they know a package is going to break things. I'm fairly certain Gnome 3, doesn't break anything and was "officially released" by the developers, thus there's no reason Arch wouldn't replace the Gnome packages with it. Any issues should be taken up with the Gnome devs. Complaining to the Arch devs is complaining to the wrong place.

Arch isn't a huge distro. There aren't enough Arch developers out there to try to accommodate with the politics of every piece of software for GNU/Linux. They stay out of those debates and just try to stay as close to their development philosophy as possible. I realize that most people find Gnome 2 to be the preferred environment, but that doesn't stop it from being an old version of Gnome. You can't blame Arch developers for not making an exception to their philosophy for one case. Imagine the kickback when not very long ago they made Python 3 the default python; all those Python programs had to be altered to use python2. There are many people like you that are dissatisfied by Arch for strictly following their philosophy. It is simply a clash in philosophy, and Arch isn't large enough to handle the more motherly development philosophies.
Edited by Jimi - 8/1/11 at 6:21pm
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
I'm more disappointed in Gnome than Arch. I guess they probably would have added a gnome2 package had it been remotely feasible, but there are just way too many files to maintain.

That's why I'm liking Mate. Its basically nothing more than a clone with every instance of gnome replaced with mate.

For example, when getting my cpufreq applet to let me change my governor I had to change org.gnome.cpufreqselector to org.mate.cpufreqselector to get it to work.

Its not complete, but if he can finish it then we'll have a version of Gnome 2.32 that can be run alongside Gnome 3, and that's all we really want.

Given Gnome's idea of "new features" I think I'll pass. Gnome hasn't really changed in years, I think it still has a few years left.
    
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post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
You've clearly said it yourself; you don't agree with Arch's update philosophy. Sounds like it's time you find a new distribution that will let you maintain old software. It doesn't matter to the Arch devs if the older software is better; Arch is meant to be a testing ground for the absolute latest technology, not a stable distribution that has developers preferred software.
The only problem with that is the lack of Pacman, easily the best package manager ever, I'd personally love a more Debian unstable like update strategy but pacman keeps pulling me back.
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post #16 of 26
This reminds me of the Trinity Desktop Environment.
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post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post

Congratulations on finding another one of the DEs that are attempting to be a fork of Gnome 2. Most likely it will die fairly soon, just like the rest.


Just thought I'd bump this thread. Mate has been adopted by Linux Mint and is being actively developed by both the Mint team and the developers to be a proper Gnome 2 replacement.
    
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post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post

Just thought I'd bump this thread. Mate has been adopted by Linux Mint and is being actively developed by both the Mint team and the developers to be a proper Gnome 2 replacement.

I remember I saw it on their front page. I was rather shocked, but it is good to see that Gnome 2 is living on. It shouldn't die. It should still continue to be maintained like Fluxbox and Window Maker.
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post

Just thought I'd bump this thread. Mate has been adopted by Linux Mint and is being actively developed by both the Mint team and the developers to be a proper Gnome 2 replacement.

That's great news.
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post #20 of 26
There was so much to disagree with in this thread.
Like the dropping of Catalyst, which in the Arch dev team's own words was dropped due to dissatisfaction with the quality of the product being provided. And the Arch philosophy which is clearly stated on their home page to be a lightweight simple Linux distribution. Thats coming from the dev teams mouth - not mine or Nathris's. I do understand that because Arch is rolling-release that it will have continually updated packages, however it does have a two-stage development cycle involving the testing (unstable) cycle and the stable (release) cycle. This is so that bleeding edge updates to packages that can be obtained are not required, since relatively often, testing packages break the entire system. Nowhere on any Arch page does it state that Arch is a distribution for Linux junkies who want nothing but the latest software with no regard to stability.

At any rate, I also have to disagree with the statement that the release of Gnome3 makes Gnome2 deprecated software. Technically you are correct, since it is Gnome version 3 versus version 2 and therefore the later version number is obviously more up to date. However Gnome 2 and 3 are TWO COMPLETELY different pieces of software. It would be like grabbing Compiz Fusion with the Emerald window decorator, and giving it the name Gnome 4 and forcing everyone to update to that. It doesn't even make sense. Gnome 3 should either be an additional software package (Gnome-Shell as it was originally titled, which is a fitting name, and it does have its place... tablet pcs, media center computers etc.. would benefit from the UI) or a fork of the original software tree. The idea of the versioning system is that most revisions of a piece of software SHOULD NOT break dependencies or functionality. Wine .3.0 should satisfy Wine .2.4 Obviously there are some exceptions to this rule (GCC, G++, etc...) but for the most part it holds true.
    
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