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Suggest a good 1 - 2 TB HDD for me - Page 3

post #21 of 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
F4 Ecogreen 5400RPM:



WD Black 640GB 7200RPM:



Modern WD Blacks are even faster than my own. Some can hit 160MB/sec sequential.

The 4k speeds give you a clue of how the drive performs when heavily multitasking. When hammered by reads/writes from different sources, the WD Black will perform better. Sometimes you hear of people saying their games lag when Antivirus is scanning in the background - the higher the 4k speeds, the less likely that'll be true.

The 512K speeds give you a clue of how the drive is going to perform on average - outside of highly sequential tasks like video encoding. Actually, that's not true - most reads/writes are between 64K-512K in size, but the average is much lower. However, because CrystalDiskMark does not test smaller sizes, we just have to extrapolate off 512K.

So after looking at these benchmarks, I'd say the WD Black is somewhere between 40-80% faster for most tasks, except highly sequential ones like video encoding.

The only question remaining is, is it worth the price? Only you can decide that. I myself have quite a few 5400RPM storage drives. I don't run games off them, but I do shove tons of other stuff onto them. They're really good value - huge capacity per dollar.


Correct. Blacks are a tad faster, but they're a lot more expensive. (Except in Canada, for whatever reason )
I should use this opportunity to learn about these.
What exactly does Sequential, 512k, 4k and 4kQD32 represent respectively?
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post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post
I should use this opportunity to learn about these.
What exactly does Sequential, 512k, 4k and 4kQD32 represent respectively?
Sequential is sequential reading/writing - most commonly found in video encoding, media center stuff, FRAPS recording, etc.

The others are all about random file access. They read a random block of data exactly that length from somewhere in the 1000MB file CrystalDiskMark creates and uses for benchmarking. The number CrystalDiskMark spits out is higher when drives are faster. Unfortunately CrystalDiskMark only reveals the average speed the drive can sustain - other benchmarks (like HDTune Pro) reveal the speed, access times, and IOPS.

QD32 is a queue depth of 32 - effectively 32 reads/writes attempting to happen at once. It's more of an indicator of how a web server might perform. The highest queue depth most desktop use gets to is around 1 or 2. Heavy multitasking might push it as high as QD4-8 very briefly, but you never get QD32 without a ton of software accessing the drive.

Examine these two benchmarks - one is a WD Black 640GB and the other is a WD Green 2TB.





The Black is obviously faster - the Green has really awful access times by the end of the drive. But just how much faster is the WD Black? HDTune Pro actually has a Random Access test which reads different amounts of data from random locations across the hard drive, and then provides us with the answer...

Again, 640GB Black first, 2TB Green second.





So, these are just numbers, which may or may not mean anything to you. Lets get some examples going!...

When I checked my Firefox cache folder, most of the files were 56-64KB in size. The 64KB test is a good measure of performance when opening Firefox, and when opening lots of tabs to pages that are already cached. The WD Black is going to get it done about 50% faster, and as such will feel a bit more snappy.

The 1MB test might be a good indicator of game loadtimes, or map preloading performance. Many textures and models are about 1MB in size. Some are smaller and some are larger, but it's close enough. The WD Black seems to be about 30% faster for that. If a game engine is waiting for data to be loaded before it can render a frame, the WD Black is going to get that data 8.5ms faster on average, which means fewer and shorter stutters. Maybe that 8.5ms is even enough of an advantage that the engine's data preloader can get the texture or model into RAM before it's required. That would completely prevent a stutter.

512B tests aren't really relevant to much - especially with most modern drives being 4k sector based. It might be a good indicator of how many times per second you can write a letter/word/line to a log file and flush it to disk.

I'm not actually sure what the 4KB test is aimed at. I'm not aware of any tasks that involve huge numbers of 4KB reads/writes. Even stuff that specifically deals with 4KB pages (like pagefile) is quite sequential... I do feel that 64KB is more relevant, but since sectors are all moving to 4KB size, it's still good to have these numbers available. (Especially for comparing SSD I/O performance)

And Random is just a splash of everything. Some tasks are closer to 1MB reads. Some are closer to being totally sequential. And some are closer to 64KB reads. But regardless, Random mixes them all up and gives you an idea of how your drive may perform across a splattering of situations.


So, there you have it. A bit long... any questions?
Edited by Kramy - 8/1/11 at 1:34am
     
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post #23 of 58
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot for taking the time off to type all that!
I understand.
Cheers~

I just found out how slow my current drives are.








EDIT: One question!
What is the burst rate?
Edited by vinton13 - 8/1/11 at 8:42am
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post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post
EDIT: One question!
What is the burst rate?
That's exactly what it means, the sudden burst of speed. Momentary speed, cannot be sustained.
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post #25 of 58
Thread Starter 
Thanks~
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post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
Hitachi 7K3000 1.5TB, only $5 more than the F3 on Newegg and it's much faster than the aging F3 (platters are denser on the Hitachis).
Sometimes I wonder if you and I are the only people on OCN who have 7K3000s.
    
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post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakecharmed View Post
Sometimes I wonder if you and I are the only people on OCN who have 7K3000s.
There are a few others, but people here seem to be stuck in the past regarding HDDs.

F3s, WD Blacks were all once great drives and they still are, but it's old tech.

What most people here don't know is that Hitachi = IBM and IBM back in the day made some really solid drives before the "Deathstar" fiasco equivalent to the Seagate firmware incident a few years back.

Their Ultrastar line and 15K600 are some of the most reliable and fastest drives on the market. It's actually sad to hear WD is buying out Hitachi's HDD division, but it's a logical move since WD's enterprise class is lacking.
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post #28 of 58
1TB - Samsung F3 1TB
2TB - Samsung F4 2TB or Hitachi Deskstar 2TB

All great drives which I have had experience with. Hitachi drives are well known for being less reliable, but WD are taking over soon so not sure.
Edited by Reflux - 8/1/11 at 11:38pm
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post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post
Thanks a lot for taking the time off to type all that!
I understand.
Cheers~
No problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post
I just found out how slow my current drives are.



Quite slow! Low sequential speeds on one, and high access times on the other. You'll certainly get a boost from a new drive, whatever you choose!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinton13 View Post
EDIT: One question!
What is the burst rate?
I gather it's the speed that the drive can maintain when dealing with data that fits in cache. It has to be large enough for sequential speeds to matter, but small enough that it fits in cache... so on a modern drive, 20-40MB would be the sweet spot.

Note: Intel drivers have some additional caching, so when doing the Burst Rate test on boards with Intel southbridges and SATA controllers, HDTune often reports 3000MB/sec or higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
That's exactly what it means, the sudden burst of speed. Momentary speed, cannot be sustained.
It can be sustained... if your workload is writing 40MB of data, then writing overtop, then writing it again... and again.

I can't think of any workload that matches that pattern... except maybe shredding a small file.

But of course, we're doing read tests, so this burst rate may be different from the burst rate the drive can maintain while writing. So that means the write burst rate may have some relevance, but I still can't think of anything where read burst rate would matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
F3s, WD Blacks were all once great drives and they still are, but it's old tech.
WD keeps silently updating their drives. They used to max out at 110-125MB/sec. Now we're seeing drives maxing at 135-150MB/sec.

Until I see a reputable review site re-runs benchmarks on all the new drives, I'm not buying into anything. Hitachi's reviews are newer than WD's, but WD's drives have been updated to be faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
What most people here don't know is that Hitachi = IBM and IBM back in the day made some really solid drives before the "Deathstar" fiasco equivalent to the Seagate firmware incident a few years back.
Well, now Hitachi is owned by WD, so we have the two fastest drive makers combined on one side. On the other side, Seagate and Samsung - both with tons of firmware issues. (Samsung F3 incompatibility with AMD southbridges... F4 2TB data corruption glitch... Seagate 7200.11 fiasco... Momentus XT spindown glitch... LP 5900RPM firmware glitches... etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
Their Ultrastar line and 15K600 are some of the most reliable and fastest drives on the market. It's actually sad to hear WD is buying out Hitachi's HDD division, but it's a logical move since WD's enterprise class is lacking.
Indeed. WD has excellent SATA drives, but their SAS line is lacking. Or... was?
     
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post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramy View Post
Indeed. WD has excellent SATA drives, but their SAS line is lacking. Or... was?
Maybe we'll see some SATA 15k Ultrastar Blacks or Ultraraptors?

I just like Hitachi's naming scheme more, it gives it more of a kick. The Caviar name sounds......tame.

Anyways...WD was sorely lacking in the enterprise environment especially in the enterprise SSD arena. Hitachi develops enterprise SSDs only and was the first company to develop Enterprise class SSDs. Many think OCZ's Vertex 3 550MB/500MB read/write was first to the market with that speed. Hitachi had those speeds since the beginning of 2011. Many people don't even know about the existence of Hitachi SSDs, which are all SLC NAND based and developed jointly with Intel.

Their 400GB SSD can sustain at least 35 petabytes of random writes. That's roughly the equivalent to 19.2TB of random writes per day for five years.

Shhhhh!
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