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Arghhh... What else to eek that extra 300Mhz? - Page 2

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
Well I know its for the IMC but it was my understanding that if you ran your RAM at spec then you really don't need to increase it the vast majority of the time (ie unless its a bad ram stick). If you overclock ram, yeah this would affect stability. Otherwise no, is that correct?

Also, I assume that the bsod would point to the ram if the IMC failed? if no, why not?

If there is no problem with the RAM, and your Vccio is sufficient to control the ram, then how would upping that voltage increase your cpu core stability?

tx

EDIT: Tuna, that's very interesting information about PLL Overvoltage. I tried to go up to 50x earlier today with that enabled (I needed it for 47x) and I got a 0x9C machine check, which is the same error I had gotten when I tried 47x with PLL disabled. Maybe I'll try disabling it again, man that is weird though.
When you go higher the clock, it stresses more on IMC which is on-die within the processor.
Also having more RAM makes it harder on IMC.
So even at stock timings, I need to bump up VCCIO and DRAM to make it stable at 4.8 or above.
It maybe my MB but that's what I found by testing it.

The PLL Overvoltage doesn't act the same way between the systems it seems....
It is very weird.
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post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat79 View Post
Some, actually the vast majority of SB chips will not reach 50x+ multi's. It is something like 50% will hit 4.5-4.6, 40% will hit 4.7 , 10% will do 4.8-4.9 and all the way down to 2% for 5.0+. That was from testing of hundreds, if not thousands of SB chips by Asus. Not saying yours will not reach it, just not to expect it and anything over 4.6 is a blessing. SB chips hit a multi wall and no matter how much voltage you put through it, it will not become stable once it reaches that wall for your specific chip. I hope you have one of the good ones, but if you can't get to 4.7 at 1.5v, I fear no matter how much you tweak, you will never see anything higher than 4.8 stable.

Mine will not go past 4.7 without instability, no matter how much voltage I put into it. I've went as high as 1.6 and still wouldn't boot into windows.
Yes I'm well aware of that. Really just want to make sure I gave mine the best try before giving up on pushing further.
    
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post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunagoblin View Post
When you go higher the clock, it stresses more on IMC which is on-die within the processor.
Also having more RAM makes it harder on IMC.
So even at stock timings, I need to bump up VCCIO and DRAM to make it stable at 4.8 or above.
It maybe my MB but that's what I found by testing it.

The PLL Overvoltage doesn't act the same way between the systems it seems....
It is very weird.
I see. Someone else did tell me to try changing it but I found it didn't do anything in my testing.... and I have the same mobo as you. However I never got a bsod that pointed to memory, so I didnt really expect it to work anyway.

Which brings me back to my previous post, exactly what BSOD error codes did you get that were later somehow remedied by increasing DRAM or VccIO? So far I've only seen 0x9C, 0x1E, 0x3E and the typical 0x124.

If there was a problem with insufficient vccio, it would likely occur in a stress test like IBT which can utilize most of your RAM, correct?
    
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post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
Vccio and Vpll as you call it, so I hear, have nothing to do with stabilizing your system. My understanding is that they control other things.

My questions would be:
1) What is the exact error your are getting in blue screen,
2) Under what specific set of circumstances do you crash/fail (for example is it during boot, Prime, Prime Blend, AVX instructions (e.g. IBT), using web browser, watching a video.. etc)
3) Did you enable Internal PLL Overvoltage (this is necessary past 47x)
4) What was LLC for your 4.7ghz overclock
5) Which C-states are enabled, disabled, or set to auto. Specifically list all of them.

Please be careful with LLC if your voltage is above 1.45. It will cause spikes (that you will not likely see in CPU-Z, though I do know a few workarounds to actually see the spike) above 1.52. I don't know whether the Core i cpus are capable of handling intermittent spikes above 1.52, or whether anything above 1.52 is dangerous, so beware of that.

You're lucky to have a chip at 4.7 that low. What stability testing did you do, and how long have you had it at 4.7? Did you test it under light loading conditions (browsing the internet, watching a video or playing a non-cpu-intensive game gets blue screens for quite a few people)?



Always provide details like this - sounds like Internal PLL Overvoltage is disabled, but honestly, for me, I couldnt even get that far until I enabled it. I either got a blinking cursor or I got a 0x9C machine check. Once I reached the Windows logo, the only thing left was to add more Vcore.

Even if you can reach a multi of 47 at 1.3v does not mean you will necessarily be able to go higher.

Also, do tell us about what your power limits were set to. You should set them to 250.
As I mentioned earlier, I pretty much get stopped out at the windows start up screen where the four coloured dots were forming the windows w/ text 'starting windows'.

Yes, I had PLL overvoltage enabled. LLC was at 75%, C1E & EIST enabled.

As for 47 multi, it's been pretty stable. I ran linx, SuperPI & 3DMark06 & 3DMark11.
Edited by Alecela - 8/2/11 at 6:34am
    
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post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunagoblin View Post
Over at the Stable Sandy Club, we were having discussion about the Internal PLL Overvoltage.
And further testing, we found kind of weird thing about it.
Many say you need it to be on after 4.6 or 4.7 but I found that I do not need it until 5.2.
Up till 5.1, I can boot up fine without it. But It won't boot w/o it at 5.2.
Some reported that it is certain multiplier dependent. Means some people needs it at 5.2 but no need at 5.3. And needs it at 4.8 but not on 5.0, etc.
Very strange how this thing works...

Also VCCIO does affect the stability. Since it's the voltage for IMC.
If it's too low, the IMC will have problem keeping up with CPU/RAM.

VCCSA does not affect the OC. since it is just the system agent voltage.
Vccsa is tied to Vio so I guess I'll leave it to 1.1v?
    
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post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tunagoblin View Post
When you go higher the clock, it stresses more on IMC which is on-die within the processor.
Also having more RAM makes it harder on IMC.
So even at stock timings, I need to bump up VCCIO and DRAM to make it stable at 4.8 or above.
It maybe my MB but that's what I found by testing it.

The PLL Overvoltage doesn't act the same way between the systems it seems....
It is very weird.
May I know your Vccio setting then?
    
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post #17 of 18
I'm running with a 2600K in a MSI Big Bang Marshal with 16GB's Mushkin Blackline 1866 Memory .

5.2ghz, 1.57vcore and Memory at 1866. Booted into Windows and ran 3D Mark 11 just fine. p11004

5.2ghz, 1.59vcore and Memory at 2133. Booted into windows and ran 3D Mark 11. p11038

I'm rock solid at 4.6ghz on 1.35vcore. I left pll on auto for all of mine. My memory runs at 1.65 volts.
    
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post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecela View Post
Vccsa is tied to Vio so I guess I'll leave it to 1.1v?
You should not change VCCSA from default (meaning I believe its not a good idea)... I think its 0.925v. Anyway I also haven't heard anyone say it helps to change it though feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Try turning off PLL Overvoltage as suggested, then next I would say either you simply need more Vcore or you've hit the wall.

EDIT: just checked your OP again, I needed my memory refreshed.... it does sound like you've hit the wall. At some point it becomes an issue of the silicon quality...... and no amount of voltage will help.
Edited by donkrx - 8/4/11 at 10:55pm
    
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