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Radeon HD 6850 or NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 - Page 3

post #21 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN;14461973 

Even at that speed the 6850 is about as fast as a stock 6870 while the chart shows the overclocked 460 is 11% faster than the stock 6870 at 1920x1080 with 4x AA.
33522.png

I run my 460 @ 900 and sometimes 920, at it is only equal to a 6870. I'm sure that result is game dependant.

The 460 scales better for sure, but it still got less additional mhz. In the end, I wish I had done additional testing between the cards. As for reference cooler argument, I feel the 460/560ti are just two exceptions to the rule of stock coolers being inadequate for overclocking. I don't know about you guys, but I always pay the premium for the better coolers, on that same note, the premium is usually like 6 dollars more and comes with a slight overclock, usually indicating a higher binned chip.
 
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post #22 of 45
He has a 560 or 560 Ti? Big Difference.
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post #23 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badness View Post
I run my 460 @ 900 and sometimes 920, at it is only equal to a 6870. I'm sure that result is game dependant.

The 460 scales better for sure, but it still got less additional mhz. In the end, I wish I had done additional testing between the cards. As for reference cooler argument, I feel the 460/560ti are just two exceptions to the rule of stock coolers being inadequate for overclocking. I don't know about you guys, but I always pay the premium for the better coolers, on that same note, the premium is usually like 6 dollars more and comes with a slight overclock, usually indicating a higher binned chip.
Where are you getting this crap an overclocked 460 is the equal of a stock 6870, the chart clearly shows the OCed 460 is 11% faster than the 6870 at 1920x1080 with 4x AA.

You can't compare megahertz from the two different companies because they use completely different architectures. What you can compare are the frames in games. Again, for the most relevant benchmark (1920x1080 4x AA) the overclocked 460 is 15% faster than the overclocked 6850 and 1% faster than the overclocked 6870.

Why are you bringing up reference coolers, we are talking about the 460 and 6850 and you admit the 460 has a great reference cooler. Why are you even suggesting a more expensive aftermarket cooler when you already said the reference cooler is good. By the way, the reference nvidia cooler is better than the ASUS DCII.
    
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post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
850 is a normal overclock for a 460. Both of these overclocks represent decent but not extreme overclocks. I run them lower than their maximum overclock because I'm in SLi and quite frankly they just destroy everything at 1920x1080.

I should have linked the whole review but the point was to compare what would be "medium" overclocks on both cards. Either way, it's pretty obvious the 460 not only overclocks better but scales better when overclocked. This is an overclocking forum so it should be noteworthy.

nvidia reference coolers are much better than AMD reference coolers so you don't have to pay a premium for a cool running card.
Be that as it may, the thing is unlike 6870 there aren't many card makers who have stuck with AMD's reference design for their 6850 cooling solution. A stock Sapphire, XFX, MSI 6850 all have a non-reference design so i don't think paying a premium then comes into the picture. I did but mine wasn't a stock card. Are your cards like proper reference cards w/o a pcb maker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
The "normal" overclock of a 6850 is ~950 and the normal overclock of the 460 is ~850. Both can go a bit higher.

Even at that speed the 6850 is about as fast as a stock 6870 while the chart shows the overclocked 460 is 11% faster than the stock 6870 at 1920x1080 with 4x AA.
I can see the 6850 at around 950 being equal to the 6870 but unfortunately they haven't got the 460 at 850 to compete against it so if you could post some benchmarks for those 2 cards at the speeds you have mentioned, it would clear things up. I would really like to know if the difference between those 2 cards after a 175mhz oc on each is a large number.
post #25 of 45
That chart clearly showed crysis 2 with OC'd 6850s beating 6870s. I got 6850s past 1100mhz.

The link I gave you showed 560 being 10% behind a 6870 at 1920x1080 without AA. At that was tomshardware, and they are quite nvidia biased. I have tested 6950, 6870, 6850, gtx 470, and my gtx 460. 915mhz 6870 smoked my stock 460, and still maintained a lead when the 460 was @ 920mhz. 6870 uses less power than 460 768mb version. Custom coolers are the same price as reference on AMD cards.
 
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post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilanth View Post
Be that as it may, the thing is unlike 6870 there aren't many card makers who have stuck with AMD's reference design for their 6850 cooling solution. A stock Sapphire, XFX, MSI 6850 all have a non-reference design so i don't think paying a premium then comes into the picture. I did but mine wasn't a stock card. Are your cards like proper reference cards w/o a pcb maker?



I can see the 6850 at around 950 being equal to the 6870 but unfortunately they haven't got the 460 at 850 to compete against it so if you could post some benchmarks for those 2 cards at the speeds you have mentioned, it would clear things up. I would really like to know if the difference between those 2 cards after a 175mhz oc on each is a large number.
Look at the performance summary charts from HWC I posted, it shows the overclocked 460 is 11% faster than a stock 6870 at 1920x1080.

This bench shows the 6850 overclocked to 950 is the same speed as a stock 6870. So if the average overclocked 6850 is as fast as a stock 6870 and the 460 overclocked is 11% faster than the stock 6870 we can conclude the overclocked 460 is faster than the overclocked 6850.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badness View Post
That chart clearly showed crysis 2 with OC'd 6850s beating 6870s. I got 6850s past 1100mhz.

The link I gave you showed 560 being 10% behind a 6870 at 1920x1080 without AA. At that was tomshardware, and they are quite nvidia biased. I have tested 6950, 6870, 6850, gtx 470, and my gtx 460. 915mhz 6870 smoked my stock 460, and still maintained a lead when the 460 was @ 920mhz. 6870 uses less power than 460 768mb version. Custom coolers are the same price as reference on AMD cards.
The overclocked 6850 is 0.8 fps faster than the 6870. I don't understand how that's "clearly" showing the 6850s beating the 6870.

Some people have gotten their 460s to 1ghz, I wouldn't call it typical.

I don't believe anything you're saying considering you claim to have owned a 6950, 6870, 6850, 470, and 460 but you can't afford anything better than a 955. If you had these cards you claim are better than the 460s why are you still using 460s?

Just go away.
Edited by MinitroN - 8/4/11 at 4:15pm
    
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post #27 of 45
I don't know what we're arguing about here. A 560 non-Ti's clearly faster than a 6850.

I remember trying out a 460 then OC'd it. Played BC2 @ 1080p, and it was surprisingly smooth.

Next day, for experimental purposes, returned 460 to try the 6870 Twin Frozr 2, OC'd, and played BC2 @ 1080p. Shockingly, I got the random stutters and chopping through the same maps.

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post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
Look at the performance summary charts from HWC I posted, it shows the overclocked 460 is 11% faster than a stock 6870 at 1920x1080.

This bench shows the 6850 overclocked to 950 is the same speed as a stock 6870. So if the average overclocked 6850 is as fast as a stock 6870 and the 460 overclocked is 11% faster than the stock 6870 we can conclude the overclocked 460 is faster than the overclocked 6850.


The overclocked 6850 is 0.8 fps faster than the 6870. I don't understand how that's "clearly" showing the 6850s beating the 6870.

Some people have gotten their 460s to 1ghz, I wouldn't call it typical.

I don't believe anything you're saying considering you claim to have owned a 6950, 6870, 6850, 470, and 460 but you can't afford anything better than a 955. If you had these cards you claim are better than the 460s why are you still using 460s?

Just go away.
Testing cards is not the same as owning them.
6850s and 460s overclock well.
I still have 460s because somebody purchased the 6850s I had for near full price, cards I only had by chance anyhow.
The AMD reference cooler design is worse. Premium for custom cooler is either very low or non-existent and the 6850 msrp is lower.
The only thing we're disagreeing about is which card is better: gtx 460 or hd 6850.

Between the version of the card I have, the 6850 kills the 460. The 6850 cost ~$15 less, consumed 33 watts less according to the manufacturers, and they both OC'd the same level of performance. Core 1160 on the 6850 and 920 on the 460. Also, CF scales better + less amps pulled means less heat generated.

Maybe my 6850s were a fluke and most don't clock so high. I don't think that negates the other pros it has in its favor.
 
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post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badness View Post
Testing cards is not the same as owning them.
6850s and 460s overclock well.
I still have 460s because somebody purchased the 6850s I had for near full price, cards I only had by chance anyhow.
The AMD reference cooler design is worse. Premium for custom cooler is either very low or non-existent and the 6850 msrp is lower.
The only thing we're disagreeing about is which card is better: gtx 460 or hd 6850.

Between the version of the card I have, the 6850 kills the 460. The 6850 cost ~$15 less, consumed 33 watts less according to the manufacturers, and they both OC'd the same level of performance. Core 1160 on the 6850 and 920 on the 460. Also, CF scales better + less amps pulled means less heat generated.

Maybe my 6850s were a fluke and most don't clock so high. I don't think that negates the other pros it has in its favor.
Phenom II X4s will bottleneck any of those dual-GPU setups at 1920x1080 so why are you testing them in the first place. There's a reason every single video card test is done with the latest i7.

If you actually looked at the charts, which are from much better reviewers than you, the overclocked 460 is clearly faster than the overclocked 6850.

Again, the 460 runs much cooler so unless you can find me a 6850 with a custom cooler that's $15 cheaper than the cheapest 460 1GB after shipping and before fail in rebates, stop saying it's cheaper to get a non-reference 6850. And don't cherrypick.

How does scaling have anything to do with power consumption? Please ******* explain to me.

The 460 has awesome scaling, don't try to imply the 6850 has better scaling unless you can provide some evidence otherwise. Here's an article called:
Amazing SLI Scaling: Do Two GeForce GTX 460s Beat One GTX 480?

I'll take the 460 because it runs cooler and overclocks better.
    
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post #30 of 45
Only the 6950 was tested in my rig, however, the other ones were only tested on an i5-2400. Yeah, yeah, so I don't have the best equipment in the world, but I was going by other benchmarks too, like anandtech.

power consumption has nothing to do with scaling, but dual cards increase heat, and that is something the 6850 is better at. Even if it has a reference cooler, which are actually pretty rare for them, it still only has a tdp of 127 watts.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/302?vs=314

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/302?vs=305

460s beat down a 480, 6850s tackle the 580.

Crossfire scales better than sli, ever since the 6000 series came out.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...g,2865-12.html

I've been doing some more research, and it appears you're right about the 460. 6850 @ 1000mhz is roughly equal to a 460 a 815mhz, and after 1000 the 6850 scaling goes downhill, and the 460 keeps going. This however, only refers to average framerates. I speculate that the 6870 would still maintain a healthy lead in minimum rates, as it has a 10% lead over the 560 in this regard.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...p,2944-17.html

The cheapest 6850 isn't even reference cooled, so that's plus in its favor also.
Edited by Badness - 8/5/11 at 1:32am
 
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