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Is the "unlimited detail" engine viable? - Page 3

post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post
In 5-10 years (probably closer to 10 years) I can see this being viable. If the computational power of GPU continues to increase at the current pace, we'll have 7-10 times faster GPUs by then, and 256-512GB of ram will probably be the norm, so storage problems also solves itself. I'm sure rendering that 500000 points will not be a problem. But yea, I don't think these guys will make any viable anytime soon.
Increase display resolutions, entity count, and map sizes/details to match, and you are back at the same problem. No one in 1978 thought we would have 2TB hard drives, so why do people need 4TB now?
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post #22 of 40
I know this thread is now classed as "old", but I would just like to mention a few things about "unlimited detail" and my viewpoint on certain aspects of research.

All of the points mentioned in this thread are totally inaccurate, I've almost read through them all, got frustrated reading them. Euclideon as a company derrived their name from the mathmatical algorithm the "Euclidean". I'll leave anyone to google exactly what that means.

Basically, their algorithm allows each individual pixel on the screen to go in search for "data" so the value is just 1, for each pixel, instead of rendering everything that is in the background and foreground, it only renders each individual pixel. They're running one single core to process their "demo". Not even touching the graphics card, and that algorithm, is how they do it. It IS brand new technology in terms of how the algorithm is applied, it SHOULD take off, and anyone disputing it obviously doesn't get how they've done it or the implications of such an algorithm.

There's an interview with Bruce Dell on YouTube, it's 41 minutes long, explains EVERYTHING, I'll leave you to find that also, we're nerds here, we can find stuff on the internet. So, to the original poster, I'm sorry to say, all your efforts in disputing this, or explaining this, have just been totally negated. This is one of the major problems I have with OCN, people go to the extreme to prove their point, but the horrible thing is, you can look for ANYTHING on the internet, to back up your point, everything and anything can almost apply, if you look for it, generally, you can find it.

I have thousands of examples of this happening, I won't go through them all. I'll list a couple just to prove my point:

My Girlfriend does Fashion/Art at College (I'm just finishing university personally, so don't judge me at that level), she struggles finding things on google, has spent weeks and weeks looking (finding irrelevant information, but trying to apply it).... Within 5 minutes of me googling, I found everything relevant to her projects, just from knowing HOW TO GOOGLE, and obtaining the correct information.

My friend on Facebook wanted to know about where, how what and when to do her GRE (Graduate Readiness Examination), with one google search, I found everything, including an e-book of practice questions. She'd spent hours looking for this sort of information. I took 5 seconds and sent it to her, she was shocked.http://www.overclock.net/t/1083517/is-the-unlimited-detail-engine-viable/20

This is where it gets irritating, the fact it takes so little time, to receive so much information, how do you know what is relevant and what isn't? Regardless of how much you know as an individual? I never claim to know anything until I'm 100% satisfied with the information I have found. For example, there's no disputing pure mathematics, you can't, it exists without cognitive thought. Same applies here with what Bruce Dell is trying to explain. They know their claims are brash, they know they're hard to believe, and that is why there's so little information about them, they can't stand "haters", that will go to the same lengths as this thread, just to dispute all their hard work.

He's poured all his money, and his life into this, it has paid off with Government Grants, so who do these people think they are, disputing their work? They can't give up all information on how this works, or other companies will rip them off, it makes sense, does it not? I don't fully understand how they've done this, but applying algorithms to an individual pixel to produce a single value to reduce processing power is genius. I've done the maths for how much processing power it could take, I'll list a tiny amount of my findings:

Take the resolution 1080p which equates to: 2073600 pixels
Take the average calculations of a computer: Varies a lot, but it's way over 2073600 calculations, more like thousands of times more: 2 076 300 000

This essentially proves how this algorithm could work!
    
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post #23 of 40
The unlimited detail engine looks absolutely amazing, I remember playing around with a similar concept, although on a less detailed scale.
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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxborough View Post

Take the resolution 1080p which equates to: 2073600 pixels
Take the average calculations of a computer: Varies a lot, but it's way over 2073600 calculations, more like thousands of times more: 2 076 300 000
This essentially proves how this algorithm could work!

The process may end up rendering only 2.1MP but how would it know that without rendering first? How would a process know what to pre-emptively cull?

If there is motion, how would the process know how to pre-emptive cull anything?
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post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxborough View Post

Take the resolution 1080p which equates to: 2073600 pixels
Take the average calculations of a computer: Varies a lot, but it's way over 2073600 calculations, more like thousands of times more: 2 076 300 000
This essentially proves how this algorithm could work!

The process may end up rendering only 2.1MP but how would it know that without rendering first? How would a process know what to pre-emptively cull?

If there is motion, how would the process know how to pre-emptive cull anything?

That's where I hit problems, it was too hard to figure out what to render and what to discard. My solution was a basic polygon model linked to the "atoms" that was used to determine if an entire model was hidden or not. Still had a pretty huge overhead though.
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post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

That's where I hit problems, it was too hard to figure out what to render and what to discard. My solution was a basic polygon model linked to the "atoms" that was used to determine if an entire model was hidden or not. Still had a pretty huge overhead though.

Okay, let me just clarify again, they obviously won't reveal how they've done it, otherwise everyone would be doing it. It is possible, and it doesn't use much processing power. I don't see the point in speculating due to the fact it's still a work in progress. Algorithm's are insane, they can do wonders, I used to do Civil Engineering at University, and some of the algorithm's they used to calculate an entire building's structual loads, is insane. It's things like that, which make me really consider the fact "this is real".
    
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post #27 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxborough View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by axipher View Post

That's where I hit problems, it was too hard to figure out what to render and what to discard. My solution was a basic polygon model linked to the "atoms" that was used to determine if an entire model was hidden or not. Still had a pretty huge overhead though.

Okay, let me just clarify again, they obviously won't reveal how they've done it, otherwise everyone would be doing it. It is possible, and it doesn't use much processing power. I don't see the point in speculating due to the fact it's still a work in progress. Algorithm's are insane, they can do wonders, I used to do Civil Engineering at University, and some of the algorithm's they used to calculate an entire building's structual loads, is insane. It's things like that, which make me really consider the fact "this is real".

Oh I know they won't reveal how they did it, I was simply mentioning the methodology that I had used to approach the problem previously mentioned.

And I've seen some of the insane calculations required for various structural loads. I've been involved in a few new mine installations, so much time is spent doing math, that the actual design and implementation is the easy part lol.
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post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxborough View Post

Okay, let me just clarify again, they obviously won't reveal how they've done it, otherwise everyone would be doing it. It is possible, and it doesn't use much processing power. I don't see the point in speculating due to the fact it's still a work in progress. Algorithm's are insane, they can do wonders, I used to do Civil Engineering at University, and some of the algorithm's they used to calculate an entire building's structual loads, is insane. It's things like that, which make me really consider the fact "this is real".

That's not true.... if they patent it.


However, you're the one speculating since there is no proof? How were you able to state numbers without explaining the culling process? How can an algorithm know which particles to cull quickly?

Yes, the algorithms are complex... but don't you think AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, DICE, ID, ect have lots of really smart people as well?
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post #29 of 40
I will believe it when I personally play a game using the unlimited engine or something similar.
    
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post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's not true.... if they patent it.
However, you're the one speculating since there is no proof? How were you able to state numbers without explaining the culling process? How can an algorithm know which particles to cull quickly?
Yes, the algorithms are complex... but don't you think AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, DICE, ID, ect have lots of really smart people as well?

The proof is with their tech demo... and the 41 minute interview.

Stating numbers without the culling process, was a speculation, yes, but it was just to show how it could be possible, I said "tiny bit of research" as I don't like speculating. I will still speculate a small amount just to explain where I'm going with my point. I understand AMD, Intel etc... have intelligent guys, but Bruce Dell has evidently found a niche in where current game design hasn't been directed towards.

I'm not trying to pull anyone down here, I'm just saying, there's no point in speculating how they did it, cause we'll never know until they're finished. Also, yeah, of course "if they patented it" that isn't true, and they probably have. But it doesn't stop someone applying it to something else using a clever re-brand or what have you.

I don't want anyone to feel insulted, I just want to say, this is real, that is all!
    
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Windows 10 Professional UE55KS7000 10-bit 4K TV Razer Turret Corsair AX750 
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Corsair 650D Razer Turret Razer Turret M-Audio BX5 Active Monitors 
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M-Audio Keystation 88es 
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i7 2600k ASUS Sabertooth P67 GTX 680 4gb POV TGT Ultra Charged Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR3 
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Corsair Force 3 SSD Crucial MX100 SSD Toshiba 2.5" 32mb cache Corsair H60 Push/Pull Scythe GT's 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Professional UE55KS7000 10-bit 4K TV Razer Turret Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 650D Razer Turret Razer Turret M-Audio BX5 Active Monitors 
Other
M-Audio Keystation 88es 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Video Games › Video Games - General › Is the "unlimited detail" engine viable?