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[MMO] WoW Lost 300k Subscribers - Page 19

post #181 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
So because I didnt do it makes it hard? I did enough pve to know what its all about and its ez retardation for idiots who think scripted material takes skill. Putting an apple in a bucket is hard if you have to go around the world 3x first. Otherwise its an apple in a bucket. I did most of wotlk content on priest and hunter. The only reason I did pve is for pvp gear. WoW is garbage, the pvp is imba and buggy, and pve is rofl pve. It still makes me laugh people think they are good because they beat scripted material, that never changes, that is designed to be beaten.
Uh huh another

I CAN'T DO HEROIC RAIDS BUT I KNOW THEY'RE E-Z (retardation? seriously?)

The fights are not "scripted" in that events happen in random intervals, so it takes quick reaction. It also takes a lot of theorycrafting and practice to optimize DPS/heals, and lots of coordination to perfect tanking. PvE isn't "hard" for the individual player... but it's not supposed to be. If every boss required 20 people to be absolutely outstanding, people would almost never down it.
Yogg+0 wasn't hard because people weren't "geared" enough, it was hard because almost no one could get all 25 people to do everything perfectly. Of course, you've never tried Yogg+0 because you're not nearly good enough. Buy hey, I'm sure it's easy, right?

P.S. if you don't want long sessions of obtaining gear and grinding rep, maybe don't play MMOs?
Edited by Narzon - 8/8/11 at 1:44pm
post #182 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
Its not about game genre its about skillbased pvp where the better player wins and RNG is minimal. I made the mistake of thinking MMO pvp could be balanced and skill based but it never will be (at least in wow/eve/etc). Maybe in GW2 there will be skill based pvp but I dont have my hopes up. WoW is garbage unless it has good pvp, which it doesnt. They gave up on balancing 2v2 remember?

Blizzard refuses to make pvp and pve have seperate effects on abilities so they let retard pvers interfere with pvp and they REFUSE to balance or fix bugs. They are out of touch with the game and have no incentive to make a balanced game. And the classes are really homogenized now because they keep making everything the same like adding mortal strikes and other stuff to every class. I played wow for two years waiting for pvp balance and basic bug fixes, nothing happened. They only proved how out of touch with the pvp community and how they didnt understand anything at all.

Dont play MMO's at all if you want skillbased pvp. RTS and FPS is where its at. Bloodline Champions is a good game that is like wow Arena without all the garbage (although its dying and laggy for US).
You seem confused. WoW is 99% a PvE MMO. I really pity you if you spent all that time leveling/gearing before you realized PvP is secondary.
post #183 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abs.exe View Post
15 000 000 - 300 000 = 14 700 000 users.
14 700 000 * $15 = $220 500 000 per month.
$2 646 000 000 a year.
Even if 1/3 of those accounts are free accounts, even an other 1/3 were inactive, that's still a $hit load of money.
I'm about 99% sure WoW will never die.
Blizzard advertises "over 12 million". With the way marketing is, it's probably safe to say that's a little bloated. Then take in to consideration that they lost twice as many the quarter before that. Definitely a dent in their income.

I do agree that it's not going anywhere anytime soon though. Just look at how long some of these other, older, MMOs are dragging it out. I wouldn't be surprised if WoW, in some form or another, is still kicking ten years from now.
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post #184 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by scohen158 View Post
I don't raid anymore haven't since Wotlk but it doesn't take much time to if you are competant and play with the same level of players clearing all of Ulduar or ICC in what like 3 hours. People make it seem like you need to spend 80 hours a week to be competitive when in fact you don't not even close if you just want to progress a max level character you can usually do so in like 5-10 hours a week most FPS/RTS players I know play that much if not way way more.

Although wow pvp isn't the best balanced it offers something unique that FPS and RTS PVP can't be compared to. As far as no skill needed you argument would then make you think that new players would be popping up and competing at tournaments since its so unbalanced skill means nothing yet when I look at tourneys for 3v3 I see alot of familiar names. Guessing it means the skilled players regardless of the level of balance are either lucky enough to have everything go the way they need it to or maybe they are just better then the rest?
Doesnt change the fact that the content is easy and the main obstacles are all the prerequisites to actually do the encounter and not the encounters themselves. Mash dps on FF, avoid fire. Gratz you are now a pro raider.

And yes there is skill in pvp but certain comps/classes are easier to play, there are a lot of hard or soft counters, and generally speaking, if two players are of equal skill then the one with the better class/comp/etc will win. There is also a lot of randomness such as resists that take away from the game being skill based. Its kinda like Poker in that you have your hand when u leave the gate but its already decided, cept u cant bluff. Sure you can develop skills but at a certain point at a high level you see that other things than skill determine wins, and at low and mid levels (and even high) people can faceroll and win.
post #185 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon View Post
Uh huh another

I CAN'T DO HEROIC RAIDS BUT I KNOW THEY'RE E-Z (retardation? seriously?)

The fights are not "scripted" in that events happen in random intervals, so it takes quick reaction. It also takes a lot of theorycrafting and practice to optimize DPS/heals, and lots of coordination to perfect tanking. PvE isn't "hard" for the individual player... but it's not supposed to be. If every boss required 20 people to be absolutely outstanding, people would almost never down it.
Yogg+0 wasn't hard because people weren't "geared" enough, it was hard because almost no one could get all 25 people to do everything perfectly. Of course, you've never tried Yogg+0 because you're not nearly good enough. Buy hey, I'm sure it's easy, right?

P.S. if you don't want long sessions of obtaining gear and grinding rep, maybe don't play MMOs?
No its all ez and scripted so anyone can do it. I only did pve to fuel my pvp and I was usually top dps if not top 3, and top healer/absorb on priest. Just beacuse most people are ******* doenst make the encounter hard, there is no way to make the people who cant do it better so being limited by others does not make the cotent hard.

If I can jump onto a rock and balance, but I have ******* who cant, but we both must balance on the rock to win, it doenst mean balancing on the rock is hard. It just means ******* cant do it.

I dont do MMOs for that very reason. Except GW2 might be good but Im not holding my breath. If you enjoy being held back by incompetent people, go play MMOs. If you like skill based gameplay where you are rewarded for performing well, play sc2 or quake or CS or even Bloodline Champions.
post #186 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narzon View Post
You seem confused. WoW is 99% a PvE MMO. I really pity you if you spent all that time leveling/gearing before you realized PvP is secondary.
Arena has extreme potential to be awesome pvp, but the devs dont care. And yeh I wish I never played wow since it was a waste of time/money and not fun. Although trolling pvers is super fun when u take away their epeen and they realize pve is a joke.

Throw a pver into pvp, he gets stomped into the ground.
Throw a pvper into pve, he can do almost all the content better than 90% of pvers.
post #187 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
Doesnt change the fact that the content is easy and the main obstacles are all the prerequisites to actually do the encounter and not the encounters themselves. Mash dps on FF, avoid fire. Gratz you are now a pro raider.

And yes there is skill in pvp but certain comps/classes are easier to play, there are a lot of hard or soft counters, and generally speaking, if two players are of equal skill then the one with the better class/comp/etc will win. There is also a lot of randomness such as resists that take away from the game being skill based. Its kinda like Poker in that you have your hand when u leave the gate but its already decided, cept u cant bluff. Sure you can develop skills but at a certain point at a high level you see that other things than skill determine wins, and at low and mid levels (and even high) people can faceroll and win.
You are right about the actual encounter not being all of it. At one point I was in a US top 50 raiding guild, peaking at about 30ish while I was there. The things that I was required to know and do were ridiculous at times. A lot of the heroics were far from easy if you consider the better guilds have to do it undergeared most of the time to maintain their rank. Not sure what you mean by prerequisites, attunement hasn't been around since what, T5?

If you are getting resists in pvp, regem or rechant.
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post #188 of 205
As someone who quit at the end of wotlk, after clearing every heroic raid (while it was current / prenerf), every "glory of" achievement and every cool title, and having lead most of those raids, I can tell you 99% of raiding is stay out the fire and watch out for ability x when dbm tells you.

It's less about skill and more about no one fcuking up. Keeping synergy up and making sure the guys that have been doing their job 100% the last 10 wipes don't start fcuking about because they're bored.

It probably sounds cynical, but it's the reality of it. That being said, downing that last heroic boss and getting reins of x, is the biggest rush I've ever got from a game.

For me personally :

Was it fun? Very.
Were there **** times? Plenty.
Do I regret it? No.
Was it time to leave? Without a doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post
Throw a pver into pvp, he gets stomped into the ground. Throw a pvper into pve, he can do almost all the content better than 90% of pvers.
In my personal experience, this is 100% spot on. The pvp guys were just better players, probably due to having to react/survive vs real human players that could do anything at anytime vs pve encounters that follow a set path.
post #189 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeKlok View Post
In my personal experience, this is 100% spot on. The pvp guys were just better players, probably due to having to react/survive vs real human players that could do anything at anytime vs pve encounters that follow a set path.
I have to disagree. If you are talking duelist level up pvper then yea, they would most likely breeze through pve content. Those people only make up 1% of the top arena players. Even less when you take in to consideration a lot were alts. Take your average BG hero/1500 champion that just grinds honor like there's no tomorrow and you'll have endless wipes.
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post #190 of 205
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Originally Posted by SafeKlok View Post
As someone who quit at the end of wotlk, after clearing every heroic raid (while it was current / prenerf), every "glory of" achievement and every cool title, and having lead most of those raids, I can tell you 99% of raiding is stay out the fire and watch out for ability x when dbm tells you.

It's less about skill and more about no one fcuking up. Keeping synergy up and making sure the guys that have been doing their job 100% the last 10 wipes don't start fcuking about because they're bored.

It probably sounds cynical, but it's the reality of it. That being said, downing that last heroic boss and getting reins of x, is the biggest rush I've ever got from a game.

For me personally :

Was it fun? Very.
Were there **** times? Plenty.
Do I regret it? No.
Was it time to leave? Without a doubt.




In my personal experience, this is 100% spot on. The pvp guys were just better players, probably due to having to react/survive vs real human players that could do anything at anytime vs pve encounters that follow a set path.

As a PVE Mage, I can tell you that I pwn in pvp with 0 resilience.
I did a few arena, a few bg's and a few duels and I died very few times.
I'm only 366 ilvl and yet the only class that provide a real challenge are rogues.
Yes I occur, I may not have fought the best pvp'ers but for a stressed guy like me who dislike pvp because of the additonal stress of being an idiot for pressing the wrong key and your dead, that was enough for me to go back to pve.

Even thought I'm not raiding with the best players, we have fun to try normal fireland, we have yet to down Shannox (1.7% furtest we got him ).
I bet those doing Heroic mode are not raiding 5 hours a week.
Must take 5 hours a week just to plan the best way to attack the boss.
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