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GTX470 915mhz OC Versus GTX580 stock clocks? - Page 4

post #31 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkillz;14497572 
the 470 is nowhere near the 570, the 570 is like a mildly overclocked 480 with less vram.

See, this is what happens when you post without reading anything in the thread.
post #32 of 118
i did read the thread, what I'm saying is the 470 will never have the performance of a 580, it struggles to meet with the 570.
post #33 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCactus;14486891 
If I'm at 915 core stable on a gtx470 I'm theoretically faster than a gtx580 right? redface.gif

Probably very close to the same speed, not likely faster. But for $99, you've got yourself a CRAZY fast card in terms of bang/buck. Even with the cost of the Kuhler added in, it's still a slammin' deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grindhouse;14487422 
Sorry, but not really. 448 processor cores VS 512..... Overclock or not, you can't magically get those 64 cores.

If it was that easy to get the GTX 580 performance, nobody would pay 450-500$ for a GTX 580.

In most tests, esp. in your average game, the net result of increasing clocks will be identical to adding more cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepoSniper;14488151 
na, 580 destroys the overclocked 470. Since 470 and 560 ti are similar in performance.

The only "proper" versus match would be an OC'd 570 vs stock 580. And you would need to be around 850 to 875 core on the 570 to match the 580 stock speeds.

I wouldn't bother OC'ing to 915. Either get it stable at 950 or lower the votlage down to keep it around 875/900. The fps gains are only around 2-3 fps in Physx and some-what demanding games.

Not when the 470 is at 900, it doesn't. Also, your neither of your last two sentences makes much sense I'm afraid headscratch.gif. Any cards can be compared, there's no such thing as a 'proper versus match'. And there's no reason to avoid 915MHz if you can't reach 950. That's just a random and somewhat silly bit of advice IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01;14488191 
A GTX 570 is about 10-15% faster clock for clock than a GTX 470. If you clock your 470 that high it will certainly be faster than a stock 570. Also the GTX 570 is faster than all the other GPUs except the 580 obviously, so yes it's going to be faster wink.gif

It's actually more like 4-6% on everything aside from Vantage, wherein the 500-series does freakishly well ... I believe nV is cheating on Vantage with the 500-series, personally. Another story for another day smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior;14488387 
It's not as simple as that. The 580 has 48 ROPs meanwhile the 570/470 have 40. The 580 also has 64 texture units vs the 56 on the 470.

So even at the same clocks the 580 has a significant advantage before accounting for shaders.

That said, I'd be surprised if a 915core 470 isn't comparable to a stock 580.

Yes, but if you OC core/shaders/ram, you also OC the texture units and ROP's wink.gif Also, the performance of those two subsystems are rarely the limiting factor to performance except on certain tests on a few 'unbalanced' cards that are severely lacking in one of these departments (example: 5830, which is very unbalanced in terms of ROP's, having only half that of it's 58xx-series brethren, can struggle on certain tests that hammer the ROP's ... I believe Crysis is one such game).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;14493738 
General idea:



The GTX 580 has a 10.8% core/shader overclock vs stock with a 2.4% memory OC. The gtx 470 has a 32.6% core/shader overclock vs stock with a 20.3% memory OC.

Take from it what you wish.

Your mafs is wrong on the 470 OC %. OC % is calculated by this formula: ((OC Clock-Stock Clock)/Stock Clock) * 100. A 470 at 900 is very close to a 50% OC, not 32%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior;14497362 
Are you using Furmark to test your OCs? All Furmark is really good for is gauging your thermals (and it's unrealistic in that regard as well).

That voltage sounds really low for that OC. OCCT, Heaven, Crysis, Metro etc are much better stress tests.

It does sound crazy low, and I'd be shocked as hell if that clock holds up at that low a voltage. And I also agree that Furmark stable means absolutely nothing. Those tests you cited are much better thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkillz;14497572 
the 470 is nowhere near the 570, the 570 is like a mildly overclocked 480 with less vram.

it takes an overclock of 838 on the core and 2004 on the mem for a 480 to match a stock 580 at 772core.

Actually 570's physically have much more 'in common' with 470's than they do with 480's. And as I said above, clock for clock, the 570 is only about 4-6% faster than a 470. And we're really not talking about 480's anyways smile.gif

Bottom-line OP if your card is actually stable at those clocks/volts (again, my jaw will be on the floor if it is, and once I pick it up, I may have to go buy a couple of Kuhlers wink.gif) then YES, you will absolutely give a 580 at stock a run for it's money as long as you're not being vram-limited, and YES you will have a card faster than any other single GPU card at it's stock clocks.
Edited by brettjv - 8/7/11 at 12:35pm
    
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post #34 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkillz;14497779 
i did read the thread, what I'm saying is the 470 will never have the performance of a 580, it struggles to meet with the 570.

http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/1085577-gtx470-915mhz-oc-versus-gtx580-stock-3.html#post14493738
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv;14497932 

Yes, but when you OC, you also OC the texture units and ROP's wink.gif
Right. But he was talking about the 580 vs 470 clock for clock. The 470 would naturally have to be clocked higher to make up for the lesser architecture.

I was just saying that even at the same clocks, the 580 has more advantages than just the added CUDA cores.

Slightly OT: This actually makes me wonder how close the 560 Ti can get to a stock 580 with proper cooling. I know Cyclops has already spanked a few 590s with his water cooled setup. thinking.gif
post #35 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxkillz;14497779 
i did read the thread, what I'm saying is the 470 will never have the performance of a 580, it struggles to meet with the 570.

Actually, an average 470 can easily be OC'd to match a 570. And I'd lay money down that a 470 at 915MHz (remember this is a 50% OC eek.gif) will be extremely competitive with a 580 at STOCK.

And from where I sit, considering the dude bought it as a GTX465 for $99, the fact that the 580 CAN be OC'd to be around +20% faster ... doesn't exactly compensate for the +350% $$$ that a 580 would cost wink.gif

+20% FPS is actually *just* enough to be plainly 'noticeable' when actually gaming. Any difference that's less than about 15% you'd never see with the naked eye. And even then, it would only be important if FPS was in the range between 30-60fps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior;14498060 
http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/1085577-gtx470-915mhz-oc-versus-gtx580-stock-3.html#post14493738

Right. But he was talking about the 580 vs 470 clock for clock. The 470 would naturally have to be clocked higher to make up for the lesser architecture.

I was just saying that even at the same clocks, the 580 has more advantages than just the added CUDA cores.

Slightly OT: This actually makes me wonder how close the 560 Ti can get to a stock 580 with proper cooling. I know Cyclops has already spanked a few 590s with his water cooled setup. thinking.gif

Fair enough. Yes, of course 470 needs a considerable OC to match a 580, and yes there's many more advantages than just the core clocks thumb.gif

I don't think a 560ti can reasonably be expected to get that close to a 580. It just doesn't have the OC'ing headroom to be able to compensate for all the things it physically lacks vs. 580, even on water. The reason the 470 can get fairly close is that it's really the same architecture, just with some units disabled/not there. Plus it's got crazy OC'ing headroom (MUCH more than the 560ti does), esp. on water cooling.

Due to its low stock clocks, the 590 is a different story. I can smoke a stock 590 with my cards, even on air wink.gif
Edited by brettjv - 8/7/11 at 1:07pm
    
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post #36 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior;14497362 
Are you using Furmark to test your OCs? All Furmark is really good for is gauging your thermals (and it's unrealistic in that regard as well).

That voltage sounds really low for that OC. OCCT, Heaven, Crysis, Metro etc are much better stress tests.

I'll do some more benchmarking at 915mhz at the current voltage of 1.062 with games like metro, etc. I still have a little bit of headroom as far as voltage - goes up to 1.087, and even at 1.062 volts temps don't seem to go past 45c in games with room temps at 80-85c. But the 915mhz OC was just for fun really. To me the GTX470 at stock clocks performs admirably in any game that I play. The 915mhz clock is just to know that I can if I ever need to.
    
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post #37 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;14493773 
Indeed, 580s with a hefty overclock are going to smoke a 900 core 470 by about 20% (In SLI) - And that is at resolutions and in games that aren't bottlenecked by the 1.28gb of vram the 470 has. The higher the res the further the 580 is just going to walk away.

If I had a 580 I'd put a Kuhler on it too and OC it. I don't think a heavily oc'd 580 could catch a 590 at stock clocks though.
    
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post #38 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCactus;14499017 
If I had a 580 I'd put a Kuhler on it too and OC it. I don't think a heavily oc'd 580 could catch a 590 at stock clocks though.

Next time please don't 'double-post' ... use the edit button.

Also, give the 'multi-quote' button a try sometime ... it's handy, I used it in my posts above wink.gif

I have a ? though ... does adding the kuhler increase the total height of the card to be more than 3 total slots? And what are you doing to cool your VRM's, anything?
    
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post #39 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv;14497932 
Probably very close to the same speed, not likely faster. But for $99, you've got yourself a CRAZY fast card in terms of bang/buck. Even with the cost of the Kuhler added in, it's still a slammin' deal.



In most tests, esp. in your average game, the net result of increasing clocks will be identical to adding more cores.



Not when the 470 is at 900, it doesn't. Also, your neither of your last two sentences makes much sense I'm afraid headscratch.gif. Any cards can be compared, there's no such thing as a 'proper versus match'. And there's no reason to avoid 915MHz if you can't reach 950. That's just a random and somewhat silly bit of advice IMHO.



It's actually more like 4-6% on everything aside from Vantage, wherein the 500-series does freakishly well ... I believe nV is cheating on Vantage with the 500-series, personally. Another story for another day smile.gif



Yes, but if you OC core/shaders/ram, you also OC the texture units and ROP's wink.gif Also, the performance of those two subsystems are rarely the limiting factor to performance except on certain tests on a few 'unbalanced' cards that are severely lacking in one of these departments (example: 5830, which is very unbalanced in terms of ROP's, having only half that of it's 58xx-series brethren, can struggle on certain tests that hammer the ROP's ... I believe Crysis is one such game).



Your mafs is wrong on the 470 OC %. OC % is calculated by this formula: ((OC Clock-Stock Clock)/Stock Clock) * 100. A 470 at 900 is very close to a 50% OC, not 32%.



It does sound crazy low, and I'd be shocked as hell if that clock holds up at that low a voltage. And I also agree that Furmark stable means absolutely nothing. Those tests you cited are much better thumb.gif



Actually 570's physically have much more 'in common' with 470's than they do with 480's. And as I said above, clock for clock, the 570 is only about 4-6% faster than a 470. And we're really not talking about 480's anyways smile.gif

Bottom-line OP if your card is actually stable at those clocks/volts (again, my jaw will be on the floor if it is, and once I pick it up, I may have to go buy a couple of Kuhlers wink.gif) then YES, you will absolutely give a 580 at stock a run for it's money as long as you're not being vram-limited, and YES you will have a card faster than any other single GPU card at it's stock clocks.

I will try some more tests by gaming then instead of furmark and see what happens. I guess I will be "forced" to play a few hours of metro at 915mhz biggrin.gif. Who knows maybe it will show instability and voltage will need to be bumped. I didn't think 1.062 is low since voltage goes only up to 1.087 I think in afterburner. As long as I can give a 580 at stock a run for it's money, then I'd be happy with that. Actually I'm just happy this card unlocked to a 470. All this other stuff is just a bonus.
    
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post #40 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCactus;14499017 
If I had a 580 I'd put a Kuhler on it too and OC it. I don't think a heavily oc'd 580 could catch a 590 at stock clocks though.

Not normally, if you look at hwbot the world record for single 580 is higher than the world record for single 590 (580 on ln2, 590 on h2o).
In Vantage the 590 cooled by ln2 is less than 1000 points higher than a 580 also ln2 cooled.

Benchmarking though, in regular gaming conditions the 580 shouldn't be able to keep up.

Edit: BTW that card sounds like a helluva good 470!
    
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