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[TheWindowsBlog]Windows Phone “Mango” – RTM - Page 2

post #11 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrin View Post
It has everything to do with what drives innovation and whether Microsoft is really pushing it forward or holding it back.
WP7's live tiles is more innovative than Android and iOS' icons.

I believe Google borrowed heavily from iOS when it was under development. Android looked nothing like it does now pre-iPhone(2006)

Whereas Live Tiles is a breath of fresh air from what we've become accustomed too.

It's like fandroids look for every reason to bash WP7 because it doesn't sell as many devices.

It doesn't sell as many devices because the licensing requires a minimum hardware spec which means no $99 handsets.

Nokia is looking to expand WP7 with the next "Tango" update for more mid-range phones.

...and get over this whole HTC royalty nonsense. Stop placing blame on Microsoft and place it squarely on Google which created Android only to wash it's hands of any sort of responsibility. If they wanted more control over it without being directly tied to it then they would have bought the patents that Microsoft currently holds but THEY refused.
Edited by BizzareRide - 8/10/11 at 2:28am
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post #12 of 71
It's not about fanaticism at all. It's about the stupidity of this ongoing patent war, with patents describing the vaguest and most common functionality. I hardly think it's simply a matter of specs.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/microsoft-s...phone-7-lacks/
post #13 of 71
OT: Tell me, then, why Microsoft doesn't directly approach Google instead of bullying its supporting manufacturers? This seems similar to the issue with Lodsys double-dipping, when Apple had already acquired a license agreement that was supposed to provide an umbrella for its developers. Or, perhaps Apple going against HTC and Samsung, attempting to have their devices banned.

I actually am interested in the future of what WP7 has to offer, but am still frustrated by this litigation battlefield, in which taking a side on any dispute results in hostility.
Edited by Ikrin - 8/10/11 at 2:51am
post #14 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrin View Post
It's not about fanaticism at all. It's about the stupidity of this ongoing patent war, with patents describing the vaguest and most common functionality. I hardly think it's simply a matter of specs.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/microsoft-s...phone-7-lacks/
...which has nothing to do with this update.

& since when was navigating your OS a certain way a feature that a competitor lacks; despite the fact they are both vastly different.

Here's what Android lacks:

-Hardware Acceleration
-Smooth and lag free navigation between windows and apps
-Tighter hardware spec
-Tighter software spec
-No low quality headsets
-Control over multitasking

Please don't post a biased article as some form of evidence.

Microsoft simply beat Google to the punch with the patents. I really have no sympathy for Google or any of it's Android constituents.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrin View Post
OT: Tell me, then, why Microsoft doesn't directly approach Google instead of bullying its supporting manufacturers? This seems similar to the issue with Lodsys double-dipping, when Apple had already acquired a license agreement that was supposed to provide an umbrella for its developers. Or, perhaps Apple going against HTC and Samsung, attempting to have their devices banned.

I actually am interested in the future of what WP7 has to offer, but am still frustrated by this litigation battlefield, in which taking a side on any dispute results in hostility.
Tell me, why Google didn't just buy the patents instead of allowing Microsoft to buy them if the truly cared about their Android constituents...

Why, only after everyone's criticism, did Google decide to step in and help HTC against APPLE(NOT MICROSOFT).

Why did Google not take Microsoft's offer to bid on the patents...
Edited by BizzareRide - 8/10/11 at 3:12am
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post #15 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post
...which has nothing to do with this update.

& since when was navigating your OS a certain way a feature that a competitor lacks; despite the fact they are both vastly different.

Here's what Android lacks:

-Hardware Acceleration
-Smooth and lag free navigation between windows and apps
-Tighter hardware spec
-Tighter software spec
-No low quality headsets
-Control over multitasking

Please don't post a biased article as some form of evidence.

Microsoft simply beat Google to the punch with the patents. I really have no sympathy for Google or any of it's Android constituents.
I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting with the first point. Also, weren't you the one suggesting that there aren't any inexpensive WP7 phones because of the "hardware requirements"?

Honestly, what article wouldn't have bias? You're basically discounting every article written. I was merely giving a representation of the types of avenues that these patents wander. Are you suggesting that those patents should even have been granted? Or that Google would have used them for the same purpose?
post #16 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrin View Post
I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting with the first point. Also, weren't you the one suggesting that there aren't any inexpensive WP7 phones because of the "hardware requirements"?

Honestly, what article wouldn't have bias? You're basically discounting every article written. I was merely giving a representation of the types of avenues that these patents wander. Are you suggesting that those patents should even have been granted? Or that Google would have used them for the same purpose?
Hardware acceleration uses that GPU to "accelerate" the UI. That's why WP7 and iOS are "smoother" than Android and less clunky. Though apparently Ice Cream Sammich will remedy this with Android.

I was suggesting that there are no low quality Windows Phone 7 headsets, not that there were and I was simply making this trivial fact out to be a feature which Android lacks... It's just as plausible as anything that guy lists as a feature that's lacking on WP7.

And yes, I'm saying that Google are not "the good guys."

Yes the patents are vague.
Edited by BizzareRide - 8/10/11 at 3:26am
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post #17 of 71
I don't think you really looked through the article with particularly discerning eyes. That is not a list of features that they thought WP7 lacked. It was a list of absurd descriptions for patents that Microsoft was alleging the listed companies of infringing. The only real mention of a feature that was lacking was copy and paste.

I also contend that the article was not that biased, given that it didn't suggest that Microsoft had no right to protect its patents, nor that WP7 is not a viable platform. I found it more informative than offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaom article
Ideally, Microsoft would work out an licensing agreement or out-of court settlement with Google and leave the device makers out of the equation. The company is already far behind its peers in the mobile space so why not focus on making a good operating system with potential even better in Windows Phone 7? Maybe the time and effort on this lawsuit would be better served by adding features that customers want; like copy and paste, for example.
I find that to pretty much summarize the article. I tend to agree that, unless they're trying to profit from litigation, as well as stifle competition, investment in r&d for their product would be more useful than trying to enforce such ludicrous patents. I'm sure you could equally argue that the money they receive from settlements could serve both purposes, but it seems contrary to the likelihood that it would just be used for funding more lawsuits.

I think this relates to Mango's RTM. Perhaps it could have been released sooner, with more robust features? Perhaps, like Vista, these features should already have been implemented to better diversify itself from competition?
Edited by Ikrin - 8/10/11 at 3:46am
post #18 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikrin View Post
I don't think you really looked through the article with particularly discerning eyes. That is not a list of features that they thought WP7 lacked. It was a list of absurd descriptions for patents that Microsoft was alleging the listed companies of infringing. The only real mention of a feature that was lacking was copy and paste.

I also contend that the article was not that biased, given that it didn't suggest that Microsoft had no right to protect its patents, nor that WP7 is not a viable platform. I found it more informative than offensive.



I find that to pretty much summarize the article. I tend to agree that, unless they're trying to profit from litigation, as well as stifle competition, investment in r&d for their product would be more useful than trying to enforce such ludicrous patents. I'm sure you could equally argue that the money they receive from settlements could serve both purposes, but it seems contrary to the likelihood that it would just be used for funding more lawsuits.

I think this relates to Mango's RTM. Perhaps it could have been released sooner, with more robust features? Perhaps, like Vista, these features should already have been implemented to better diversify itself from competition?
The reason Microsoft has not sued Google is because Google has not infringed on their patents. The device/handset makers have. Android is an open-source project, not a Google project, although they contribute heavily to it. Google only licenses its apps for use with Android.

While I agree all this litigation does little to drive market innovation, patents are designed to protect intellectual property. Microsoft has every legal right to defend its patents if they think they are being infringed.
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post #19 of 71
That's not entirely true. There's the Nexus One and the Nexus S. Those are both Google Android devices.

I would agree that they have the right to sue. That is the only real right granted by U.S. patent law. However, I'm sure that, given that they must have an extensive team of software developers, those patents would even sound absurd to them.
post #20 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeNF View Post
People actually use Windows Phone? I had no idea.

I used it on my HTC HD2 for a couple weeks and really didn't like it. I believe it was WP6.
WP6 is very old and no where near as good as WP7; it's a completely new operating system, and much better than WP6. I agree, WP6 IS terrible. I had a work phone with it, and I hated it.

This is excellent news! I'm still loving my Samsung Focus.
I use both the Android HTC Evo 4(my work phone) and WP7, and I'm being honest, the WP7 OS is the better choice imop.
Edited by whitingnick - 8/10/11 at 11:33am
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