Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › Is Linux really a viable fully featured desktop OS?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is Linux really a viable fully featured desktop OS? - Page 2  

post #11 of 126
Lol I feel your pain. I recently set up my desktop to dual-boot Windows 7 and Kubuntu just because I barely know Linux and wanted to get comfortable with it. I got it installed okay but I need the proprietary NVIDIA drivers to enable dual-screen and allow me to play Minecraft. That said, every single Ubuntu/Kubuntu/KDE guide I can find on how to install NVIDIA drivers to Linux does not work. Every single one requires me to open system dialogs and menus or use CLI commands that simply do not exist on my install.

I did get BackTrack 5 successfully installed (I minored in Computer Networks and want to learn a bit more about network security) on my laptop but boy was that a process. Getting X.org to work involved deleting a bunch of cryptic .kcache files from my system, twice. Getting on my WPA2-secured wireless network required writing a 50-line script (it just works if it's not secured, WEP, or WPA, but WPA2 is totally different for some reason). Getting NVIDIA drivers installed has been impossible. And if you run into a problem you better hope someone else has encountered it and fixed it and blogged about it because if you go to the BackTrack forums, admit you're a newb, and try to ask for help, everyone turns elitist and calls you a moron and tells you to go back to Windows.

I'm sure Linux is nice once set up and once you're comfortable, but it's the initial learning curve that puts me off every time I try to use it. When I can't get something to work I always switch back to Windows out of frustration. Unfortunately I usually don't have time to spend hours googling various forums and browsing blogs to do something that happens automatically on Windows or at least only takes a few minutes to do.
post #12 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumClocker View Post
I gave up on linux when I was told "I should know these things" when asking how to install programs via a command line/terminal.

Not only is the OS a pita to use, run and maintain.... Most of the support userbase is snobby as hell
I don't know about that. However with the creation of Ubuntu and Wiki you have a huge database of knowledge. Most simple questions can be found in Ubuntu's documentation or another distro's Wiki. It also depends from distro to distro. Generally though if you want to learn CLI you should start reading up on the basics yourself as it does get annoying time and time again to get that question only to point them to the same documentation. If they read the basic FAQs they would have gotten the answer. I don't actually respond to requests like that, in here or in the Win forum. I fully believe you should read computer use 101, learn how to use the basics of a system and then ask questions for more difficult problems. Obviously you know how to use a message board, why can't you use a HTML based website and read FAQs?

[edit]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mott555 View Post
Lol I feel your pain. I recently set up my desktop to dual-boot Windows 7 and Kubuntu just because I barely know Linux and wanted to get comfortable with it. I got it installed okay but I need the proprietary NVIDIA drivers to enable dual-screen and allow me to play Minecraft. That said, every single Ubuntu/Kubuntu/KDE guide I can find on how to install NVIDIA drivers to Linux does not work. Every single one requires me to open system dialogs and menus or use CLI commands that simply do not exist on my install.

I did get BackTrack 5 successfully installed (I minored in Computer Networks and want to learn a bit more about network security) on my laptop but boy was that a process. Getting X.org to work involved deleting a bunch of cryptic .kcache files from my system, twice. Getting on my WPA2-secured wireless network required writing a 50-line script (it just works if it's not secured, WEP, or WPA, but WPA2 is totally different for some reason). Getting NVIDIA drivers installed has been impossible. And if you run into a problem you better hope someone else has encountered it and fixed it and blogged about it because if you go to the BackTrack forums, admit you're a newb, and try to ask for help, everyone turns elitist and calls you a moron and tells you to go back to Windows.

I'm sure Linux is nice once set up and once you're comfortable, but it's the initial learning curve that puts me off every time I try to use it. When I can't get something to work I always switch back to Windows out of frustration. Unfortunately I usually don't have time to spend hours googling various forums and browsing blogs to do something that happens automatically on Windows or at least only takes a few minutes to do.
The nvidia thing is impossible. All you have to do is drop into single user mode, Grub is set up to have that by default. After you drop into user mode, CLI, you just run the Nvidia installer:

chmod 775 NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-280.13.run
./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-280.13.run
Read what it says and do what it says. It will auto-disable nouveau, if not purge the package.

WEP? Set up wpa_supplicant.conf in /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

add your UUID, your protection password, dhcpcd ethX or wlanX

No scripts, no hanky panky, simple config file.

[edit2: /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf]

Code:
update_config=1
ctrl_interface=/var/run/wpa_supplicant
ctrl_interface_group=netdev
ap_scan=1
fast_reauth=1
eapol_version=1
network={
        ssid="None of your business"
        psk="complicated" # or psk=###############
        priority=5
}
That's a basic example found all over the web. That does wpa-psk and works wonders. I have my system set up to dhcp wlan0 on boot, though I did have to set that up. That was because the wifi was added after install, debian would have set that up for me otherwise.
Edited by mushroomboy - 8/10/11 at 12:41pm
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
post #13 of 126
Run Mac OSX, run your windows apps in a vm.
Gene-Z Dedi
(7 items)
 
Captain America
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i7 2600k @ 5.2 Ghz Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z Gskill 2133 4GB Caviar Black 
CoolingOSPower
Corsair H100 Arch x64 OCZ 650 Watt 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Intel Xeon E5-2650 Intel Xeon E5-2650 ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS XFX 6870 
RAMOS
32 GB Samsung Arch Nix 
  hide details  
Gene-Z Dedi
(7 items)
 
Captain America
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
i7 2600k @ 5.2 Ghz Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z Gskill 2133 4GB Caviar Black 
CoolingOSPower
Corsair H100 Arch x64 OCZ 650 Watt 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
Intel Xeon E5-2650 Intel Xeon E5-2650 ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS XFX 6870 
RAMOS
32 GB Samsung Arch Nix 
  hide details  
post #14 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by japan1 View Post
If you want to run Windows applications - run Windows. This why is a lot of people find Linux difficult, as they're expecting their Windows programs to run on a completely different OS.

You wouldn't expect your toaster to drive you to work, so why try it?


I had no problem using Linux I learned a lot and was very comfortable with it. I did not find it hard but it did take a little extra effort here and there. I used Arch and other distros for quite a few years. I was able to get all my hardware running and even edited the source code to get the g15 daemon to work properly on my G510 keyboard. None of this was the problem. I don't consider myself a hard core 1337 admin hacker but I don't think I am a noob either. I still have 2 other devices running Arch.

I also did not expect "windows apps to run on Linux" I do however expect a fair viable alternative and it just isn't there. Resorting to running windows apps in a VM or Wine is a band-aid solution. I tried and tried to find Linux native alternatives and like I said I was able to get about 1/2 way there.

The problem is I have less and less of a reason to even boot into Linux when everything I use my PC for is on the windows side and not Linux.

It's more like getting a toaster and finding it only toasts bagels really really well and nothing else. That's really nice but some times you still need the damn toast.
Edited by cavallino - 8/10/11 at 1:01pm
XEON POWER
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E3-1280 V2 Asus p8h77-i EVGA GTX 570  Corsair Dominator Platinum 1866 cl9 16gb 2x8gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F3 Samsung 830 Crucial C300 Samsung USB Blu-Ray 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 8 Dell U2711 HP 2709m Razer Blackwidow 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Silverstone Strider Essentials ST60ES-F Bitfenix Prodigy Razer Naga Molten razer sphex 
Audio
onboard 
  hide details  
XEON POWER
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon E3-1280 V2 Asus p8h77-i EVGA GTX 570  Corsair Dominator Platinum 1866 cl9 16gb 2x8gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung Spinpoint F3 Samsung 830 Crucial C300 Samsung USB Blu-Ray 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 8 Dell U2711 HP 2709m Razer Blackwidow 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Silverstone Strider Essentials ST60ES-F Bitfenix Prodigy Razer Naga Molten razer sphex 
Audio
onboard 
  hide details  
post #15 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumClocker View Post
I gave up on linux when I was told "I should know these things" when asking how to install programs via a command line/terminal.

Not only is the OS a pita to use, run and maintain.... Most of the support userbase is snobby as hell
Snobby? Zeesh! Really? I guess some people just have never heard of google searches, or even searching on this site before asking something as simple as a command line install. Its been answered a google times. Here, you use Mint, right? Thats Ubuntu based, so I'll type it for the million'th and 1 time...

sudo apt-get install programname
<ENTER>
now type your password
<ENTER>
lots of letter fly though the terminal that you don't need to read until it stops and asks
Y or N?
<Y>
<ENTER>
Wait for the more letters you don't need to fly through the terminal.
Your program in installed.

We are generous... so much that Linux is free, and so are the programs for it! And to make it even LESS of a PITA than Windows, which charges for everything, we have this thing called a repository, so you don't even HAVE TO use a search engine to find what you want, or deal with the possibility of a piggybacked virus. Go step out into the street, Windows promised there isn't a bus coming. Tool. /end rant
Edited by StupidMonkey - 8/10/11 at 12:57pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AVC PENTIUM 4 DUAL CORE HSF Z9H741K011 EVGA 680i SLI 2x NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800GT 512MB PCI-E REV 1 (SLI) 4x WM552/XG691 HYNIX 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 JEDEC STD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x SEAGATE HDD 250GB SATA 7200RPM 16MB (Raid0) LG 20X DUAL-LAYER DVD RE-WRITER NON-LIG XP-MCE/Mint 11 KDE 50 inch Samsung DLP HDTV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Wireless BT 7000 1 KILOWATT OEM ATX PSU FULL-TOWER BLUE CASE 2.0B MS Wireless Laser BT 8000 
Mouse Pad
Alienware Big Head 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AVC PENTIUM 4 DUAL CORE HSF Z9H741K011 EVGA 680i SLI 2x NVIDIA GEFORCE 8800GT 512MB PCI-E REV 1 (SLI) 4x WM552/XG691 HYNIX 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 JEDEC STD 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
2x SEAGATE HDD 250GB SATA 7200RPM 16MB (Raid0) LG 20X DUAL-LAYER DVD RE-WRITER NON-LIG XP-MCE/Mint 11 KDE 50 inch Samsung DLP HDTV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Wireless BT 7000 1 KILOWATT OEM ATX PSU FULL-TOWER BLUE CASE 2.0B MS Wireless Laser BT 8000 
Mouse Pad
Alienware Big Head 
  hide details  
post #16 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
...snip
That's a good example of helping a Linux newb. Maybe there is hope.

The usual response I got elsewhere was "How do you not know how to do that!?!? Go cry in a corner Windows boy!!!" Maybe my mistake was not coming to OCN first for Linux help.
post #17 of 126
I like Linux, it's secure, fast, and fun. But I always find myself booting into windows to get work/school/gaming done and got tired of dual booting. So after years of dual booting windows/Linux I gave Linux the boot. I don't work in IT so I don't have the need to know the inner workings of the OS and the older and busier I get, the less I feel the desire to navigate the command line. Much respect to all the Linux Guru's though, always wanted to be one my-self, just never had the motivation to stick with it.
post #18 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mott555 View Post
That's a good example of helping a Linux newb. Maybe there is hope.

The usual response I got elsewhere was "How do you not know how to do that!?!? Go cry in a corner Windows boy!!!" Maybe my mistake was not coming to OCN first for Linux help.
I always install via the method the manufacturer gives me. Nvidia gives you a .run file, basically a .exe file. You should always use the native way first, if that doesn't work then use other methods. Though you still need your kernel headers, blah blah blah. Most tutorials don't tell you how to do this, because .run files are considered basics. Nvidia chooses this for whatever reason and I've always used it and never had a problem.
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
post #19 of 126
Ya, everyone has their thing.

I cannot stand Windows' window management, waaay too much mouse/keyboard work. I NEED functionality like window rollup, virtual desktops, send window to front/back, always on top and of course: scroll by mousehover (openbox/compiz).

...read my sig.
workstation
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K EVGA Z68 SLI GeForce 670 GTX G.Skill 32GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
OCZ Agility 3 60GB Zalman arch x86_x64 U3011 + U3014 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
PCPowerCooling 860w Chenbro server G500 Asus D2X, Def Tech 5.3 
  hide details  
workstation
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K EVGA Z68 SLI GeForce 670 GTX G.Skill 32GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
OCZ Agility 3 60GB Zalman arch x86_x64 U3011 + U3014 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
PCPowerCooling 860w Chenbro server G500 Asus D2X, Def Tech 5.3 
  hide details  
post #20 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
I always install via the method the manufacturer gives me. Nvidia gives you a .run file, basically a .exe file. You should always use the native way first, if that doesn't work then use other methods. Though you still need your kernel headers, blah blah blah. Most tutorials don't tell you how to do this, because .run files are considered basics. Nvidia chooses this for whatever reason and I've always used it and never had a problem.
I had to try other methods because the .run file always complains that I have an X server running, even if I kill it and drop to CLI-only by hitting Ctrl-Alt-F1 (or whatever the key combo is). That's on my desktop anyway. It installs just fine on my laptop but then startx only brings me to a black screen and I have to power-cycle and delete my xorg.conf file to get it working again, which of course prevents X from loading the NVIDIA drivers. I haven't had time to investigate further.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Linux, Unix
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › Linux, Unix › Is Linux really a viable fully featured desktop OS?