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[TS] Puget dissects vertical vs. horizontal chassis cooling - Page 4

post #31 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epitope;14541167 
The vertical orientation of the FT02/RV02 may not have an advantage due to convection, but I'd love to see anybody try to fit 3X 180mm fans blowing in the same direction in a horizontal configuration. It's not the vertical orientation that matters. It's the fact that there are 3 huge fans all working together to turn the case into a virtual wind tunnel. You don't have fans all facing 90 degrees to each other stirring the hot air around. The air moves through the case in an orderly fashion.
That's what I kind of hit on in my post that would explain the stuff I've seen and still conform to convection being negligible. But what that essentially means is that all cases need to do is install more fans in the front (many cases already allow 2-3 120s), don't have any exhaust in the top, and make the backs a honeycomb of ventilation. Is the secret to air cooling superiority really this simple, and they just have never been able to figure it out?
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post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
It's about time someone comes to their senses. The whole "hot air rising" thing only matters if you're trying to go fanless, otherwise it's all about the flow from the fans.

Sorry, this^ is simply not true. I deal in extreme data mining & CFD, etc. But, fighting the laws of physics because you don't understand them, doesn't mean your machine is efficiently being cooled.

Heat rises..! That means collective ambient heat within your case itself, aswell. All thermals play a roll, just not air movement (Metal too..)


So using your top opening for an intake, is quite ignorant, no matter what this limited study suggests. At any point, (depending) you can fighting the laws of physics as loosing as much as 20% efficiency.

Thus, best cooling.



What cooling solution used less wattage to stay cool?
post #33 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post
Sorry, this^ is simply not true. I deal in extreme data mining & CFD, etc. But, fighting the laws of physics because you don't understand them, doesn't mean your machine is efficiently being cooled.

Heat rises..! That means collective ambient heat within your case itself, aswell. All thermals play a roll, just not air movement (Metal too..)


So using your top opening for an intake, is quite ignorant, no matter what this limited study suggests. At any point, (depending) you can fighting the laws of physics as loosing as much as 20% efficiency.

Thus, best cooling.
The very Silverstone that everyone here is worshiping has a case with top intake. One particular review tried reversing the top fans and ended up with an overall increase in temps. Silverstone even made videos using smoke to show the airflow direction. I don't remember what it was but I think it was part of the TJ lineup.
post #34 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post
The very Silverstone that everyone here is worshiping has a case with top intake. One particular review tried reversing the top fans and ended up with an overall increase in temps. Silverstone even made videos using smoke to show the airflow direction. I don't remember what it was but I think it was part of the TJ lineup.
Yep, its the FT01. They even have an article on it.



As I mentioned before, having a direct source of cool air to your heatsink will yield lower temperatures than forcefully drawing a stream of warm air from your other components, especially when most cases on the market today offer a top fan slot that is no more than 4~ inches away from the heatsink.
post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post
The very Silverstone that everyone here is worshiping has a case with top intake. One particular review tried reversing the top fans and ended up with an overall increase in temps. Silverstone even made videos using smoke to show the airflow direction. I don't remember what it was but I think it was part of the TJ lineup.

That^ is the Raven, and it was bottom draw. They demonstrated it @ several shows (w/smoke, etc) to illustrate simple thermal dynamics.

edit: oh reversed fans.


Also @ Agenesis.. most flip the motherboard, so exactly what you are asking for is done. But even better.

Here: Flip mobo..
Edited by formula m - 8/11/11 at 12:48am
post #36 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post
The very Silverstone that everyone here is worshiping has a case with top intake. One particular review tried reversing the top fans and ended up with an overall increase in temps. Silverstone even made videos using smoke to show the airflow direction. I don't remember what it was but I think it was part of the TJ lineup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post
That^ is the Raven, and it was bottom draw. They demonstrated it @ several shows (w/smoke, etc) to illustrate simple thermal dynamics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=douRh490E3I
Nah, hes talking about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post
That^ is the Raven, and it was bottom draw. They demonstrated it @ several shows (w/smoke, etc) to illustrate simple thermal dynamics.

edit: oh reversed fans.


Also @ Agenesis.. most flip the motherboard, so exactly what you are asking for is done. But even better.

Here: Flip mobo..
Thanks for the tip, kiddo, but I already mentioned it on the #4th post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agenesis View Post
Hopefully this stops some of the responses such as "BUT HOT AIR RISES" whenever someone recommends to use the top as intake. You're golden as long as you have a source of airflow cooling your components within the closest possible range - and thats one of the reasons why the FT02 cools so well.
And you agreeing with me on airflow doesn't exactly help your case of proving why top intake is "ignorant".
Edited by Agenesis - 8/11/11 at 1:04am
post #37 of 93
That's what I was thinking about. Thanks for digging it up!
post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agenesis View Post
Nah, hes talking about this.


And you agreeing with me on airflow doesn't exactly help your case of proving why top intake is "ignorant".
Did u just quote urself, & call urself ignorant?

+1 if u did..
post #39 of 93
Well I'm completely subscribed to the idea, but the people saying that whoever is wrong in recommending the Raven are just thinking about it from the wrong perspective. The vertical orientation is still superior, just not due to convection.

Think about it; You want fresh air going across each component, and then you want that air expelled before going over anything else. This just hasn't been done with traditional orientations yet.

The reason for this is the need for optical drives, fan controllers, and whatever else in the 5.25" bays to be readily accessible on a horizontal plane. On what other surface of the case can you have these things and not get in the way of sending fresh air in a linear fashion across components?

The issue also arises about how to get air across the HDDs/SSDs without then sending that warmer air through the case and across components. Again, this hasn't been addressed in traditional cases. Traditional orientation could adopt the method of putting them behind the motherboard, but how do you then get as much airflow back to them and out of the case like the bottom fans of the Raven do?

The RV03 is the only case I've seen that addresses all of these things. It isn't good for water cooling, but it wasn't made for water cooling.

edit: Just an addendum to my last sentence - you could probably get a case from Mountain Mods or design your own that addresses those issues, but all would be much bigger and much more expensive. I was just referring to cases that most people can afford in a general form-factor most people want.
Edited by Kaldari - 8/13/11 at 6:05pm
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post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaldari View Post
Well I'm completely subscribed to the idea, but the people saying that whoever is wrong in recommending the Raven are just thinking about it from the wrong perspective. The vertical orientation is still superior, just not due to convection.

Think about it; You want fresh air going across each component, and then you want that air expelled before going over anything else. This just hasn't been done with traditional orientations yet.

The reason for this is the need for optical drives, fan controllers, and whatever else in the 5.25" bays to be readily accessible on a horizontal plane. On what other surface of the case can you have these things and not get in the way of sending fresh air in a linear fashion across components?

The issue also arises about how to get air across the HDDs/SSDs without then sending that warmer air through the case and across components. Again, this hasn't been addressed in traditional cases. Traditional orientation could adopt the method of putting them behind the motherboard, but how do you then get as much airflow back to them and out of the case like the bottom fans of the Raven do?

The RV03 is the only case I've seen that addresses all of these things. It isn't good for water cooling, but it wasn't made for water cooling.

edit: Just an addendum to my last sentence - you could probably get a case from Mountain Mods or design your own that addresses those issues, but all would be much bigger and much more expensive. I was just referring to cases that most people can afford in a general form-factor most people want.
Just as an example my case (which is over 3 years old) can have up to 6 hard drives (currently 5) and an optical drive completely out of everyone's way without modding. There's a clear path of airflow to my motherboard and the hard drives are actually cooled and that's just a old example. There are much much better cases on the market now and they too are horizontally orientated and all of this is coming from someone that respects vertical airflow cases and would like to see more new stuff built on this idea.
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