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post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
You wouldn't, because you've never had both.

You've never had a i5 that would do 5GHz 24/7 and bench at 5.3GHz.

Even at stock its about 30-40% faster than a 955.

The 955 has a whole 800MHz~ of OC headroom, while the i5-2500k has ~1600MHz of OC headroom.

There are cases where the 955 will provide a worse price vs performance ratio, if you can get a MC deal that is one of those times. Which is pretty significant when you consider how often price vs performance at higher ends of performance doesn't scale so proportionally.

We don't know how well bulldozer or ivy will do. What we do know is what the i5-2500k can do. I don't see any reason to spend money on a $110 processor just to buy another in a few months with no indication of performance levels as it applies to gaming.

If you have some heavy rendering needs, waiting for bulldozer makes sense. If you're just a gamer, there is no reason to wait because the i5-2500k has a great price and will continue to perform optimally in gaming for at least another generation of CF/SLI cards (6xx/7xxx).
Couldn't have said it any better
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post #72 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecnelitsep View Post
Couldn't have said it any better
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post #73 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
You wouldn't, because you've never had both.

You've never had a i5 that would do 5GHz 24/7 and bench at 5.3GHz.

Even at stock its about 30-40% faster than a 955.

The 955 has a whole 800MHz~ of OC headroom, while the i5-2500k has ~1600MHz of OC headroom.

There are cases where the 955 will provide a worse price vs performance ratio, if you can get a MC deal that is one of those times. Which is pretty significant when you consider how often price vs performance at higher ends of performance doesn't scale so proportionally.

We don't know how well bulldozer or ivy will do. What we do know is what the i5-2500k can do. I don't see any reason to spend money on a $110 processor just to buy another in a few months with no indication of performance levels as it applies to gaming.

If you have some heavy rendering needs, waiting for bulldozer makes sense. If you're just a gamer, there is no reason to wait because the i5-2500k has a great price and will continue to perform optimally in gaming for at least another generation of CF/SLI cards (6xx/7xxx).
I do. Because that $110 processor will handle every task that your average computer user can throw at it, regardless of what BD will do. If you prefer to spend twice as much to do the exact same tasks with the same results that is your choice. iF BD turns out to be a godsend- the OP is all set and can get one. If it is a flop, he has a great reasonably priced machine that will serve him well for the minimum amount of expenditure.
Edited by Jagged_Steel - 8/13/11 at 6:07am
    
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post #74 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged_Steel View Post
I do. Because that $110 processor will handle every task that your average computer user can throw at it, regardless of what BD will do. If you prefer to spend twice as much to do the exact same tasks with the same results that is your choice.
That's a pretty weak argument for going AMD. Not everyone uses their computer the same way and there are certainly a lot of people that will see benefits from a SB rig. For example, people with multiple GPU setups that would get bottlenecked by a Phenom II, or people that do a lot of encoding/rendering, etc.


In the end, OP could get the Phenom II setup now and then have to pay more to upgrade to a possibly competitive chip (BD) when it comes out, or he could just pay once for a 2500K/2600K and be done with it. Going the Intel route means less hassle and less money spent than having to buy one CPU only to replace it soon after with BD.
Edited by 996gt2 - 8/13/11 at 6:11am
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post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post
That's a pretty weak argument for going AMD. Not everyone uses their computer the same way and there are certainly a lot of people that will see benefits from a SB rig. For example, people with multiple GPU setups that would get bottlenecked by a Phenom II, or people that do a lot of encoding/rendering, etc.


In the end, OP could get the Phenom II setup now and then have to pay more to upgrade to a possibly competitive chip (BD) when it comes out, or he could just pay once for a 2500K/2600K and be done with it. Going the Intel route means less hassle and less money spent than having to buy one CPU only to replace it soon after with BD.
Fascinating, yet completely irrelevant. Perhaps you should read what the OP stated as HIS NEEDS , which is what this thread is about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post
Hi all,

I'm currently planning on a new gaming rig. I really wanted to build one around the ROG Crosshair V Formula board, I love the way it looks, and ROg boards are just WIN I think.

I was all set to get this board and a 965 BE as a place holder for BD, but then people said I should go Sandy Bridge. Now I can't deny that in bench marks, Sandy Bridge gives the current AMD chips a hiding, but some things still make me a little uncomfortable.

Forstly, the ROG board is only R400.00 more than a basic P67/Z67 board, and of course it has way more to offer. For that kind of pricing the ROG makes sense being an ebthusiast board at a similar price to an Intel mainstream board.

As for performance, I know an X4 965 loses to Sandy Bridge, but will my gaming really be bad if I pair it with a Radeon 6970? Bare in mind this would be a place holder for bulldozerwich of course we hope will be at least equal to sandy bridge.

The thing that makes my choice hard is that components cost a lot of money here, and so I really don't want to waste money, but I also can't ignore how expensive an intel platform is when you look at the features an intel board and AMD noard of the same price come with.

Will the gaming experience really differ dramatically, to the point where it's very noticable if I go with an X4 965 over an i5 2500, and will Bulldozer be worth waiting for?
He clearly states what he wants in the very first sentence - a GAMING RIG. So your examples of people who might need to render or encode in Imax format is completely irrelevant. He makes no indication about needing multiple GPUs , but if he did the AMD rig he is pondering will handle that with flying colors too.
He then states that his preference is for the AMD/ASUS Crosshair V ROG board. The question at the end sums everything up. The answer to this question is clearly NO, the gaming experience will not differ dramatically regardless of which platform he goes with, it is simply a matter of how much money he is going to spend to play the exact same games. I am certain this is the case and that the AMD system he is leaning towards will do everything that he wants, because I have the baby brother to that and IT does everything that he wants. I can play every game that exists today just fine with my rig.

I understand that you guys with the expensive and ridiculously fast Intel machines are proud of them and rightly so. The fact still remains that most people simply have no use for that sort of computing power. What good is an expensive racecar that goes 300Mph when the only roads you want to drive on are restricted to 75 Mph? The fancy racecar will perform better at the local racetrack, but the OP here has a specific destination in mind and is just looking for a nice daily driver to get him there and has no intentions of driving real fast in circles on the racetrack.
    
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post #76 of 95
I have a 965 with a 6970 and I'm completely satisfied gaming wise. Yeah the i5/i7 are better/faster. If I was buying now I would wait the month or so to see what the FX series can do and then decide.
post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post
That's a pretty weak argument for going AMD. Not everyone uses their computer the same way and there are certainly a lot of people that will see benefits from a SB rig. For example, people with multiple GPU setups that would get bottlenecked by a Phenom II, or people that do a lot of encoding/rendering, etc.


In the end, OP could get the Phenom II setup now and then have to pay more to upgrade to a possibly competitive chip (BD) when it comes out, or he could just pay once for a 2500K/2600K and be done with it. Going the Intel route means less hassle and less money spent than having to buy one CPU only to replace it soon after with BD.
People going to SB, will see a 20FPS improvement over 60FPS Ultra Settings 1908x1080, on what they are getting from a Phenom II, not worth it.
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post #78 of 95
Jagged your arugment has merit, just not in this thread.

The OP is talking about a high end $300+ board coupled with CF 6970s.

The segment of gamer he is attempt to breach is dominated by the i5-2500k, a chip that will smoke a Phenom II with that kind of gpu power for a very compelling price difference. A price difference someone looking at ROG boards and crossfiring two of AMDs top GPUs would be willing to pay since they're dropping more on the board, and three times as much on the gpus as he would be an i5-2500k.

Your mph analogy also carries no weight, and is pretty played out on the AMD side.

It isn't like the i5-2500k is a golden end all be all chip. If I had a low end, old GPU like yours I wouldn't care about the i5-2500k either, because it would be a processor > gpu mis-match. The budget argument you're attempting to make has no merit here whatsoever. If the pricing on bulldozer is accurate, and I don't know for sure if it is the IPC or per core performance of Bulldozer isn't going to beat sandy bridge.

Recommending a much slower 955 for the level of rig he is going for isn't a good idea. Neither is directing someone to spend $300+ on a ROG board, $700+ on gpus, and $110 on a slow cpu. That is a terrible match up if there ever was one. Furthermore since we're talking about gaming, an x4 is all that really matters here. If pricing and history is any indication AMD's x4 isn't going beat the i5-2500k, not even at stock. So the option to go bulldozer, while purchasing two cpus overall in this case seems to be driven more by bias thoughts than logical understanding.
    
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post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Jagged your arugment has merit, just not in this thread.

The OP is talking about a high end $300+ board coupled with CF 6970s.
The segment of gamer he is attempt to breach is dominated by the i5-2500k, a chip that will smoke a Phenom II with that kind of gpu power for a very compelling price difference. A price difference someone looking at ROG boards and crossfiring two of AMDs top GPUs would be willing to pay since they're dropping more on the board, and three times as much on the gpus as he would be an i5-2500k.

Your mph analogy also carries no weight, and is pretty played out on the AMD side.

It isn't like the i5-2500k is a golden end all be all chip. If I had a low end, old GPU like yours I wouldn't care about the i5-2500k either, because it would be a processor > gpu mis-match. The budget argument you're attempting to make has no merit here whatsoever. If the pricing on bulldozer is accurate, and I don't know for sure if it is the IPC or per core performance of Bulldozer isn't going to beat sandy bridge.

Recommending a much slower 955 for the level of rig he is going for isn't a good idea. Neither is directing someone to spend $300+ on a ROG board, $700+ on gpus, and $110 on a slow cpu. That is a terrible match up if there ever was one. Furthermore since we're talking about gaming, an x4 is all that really matters here. If pricing and history is any indication AMD's x4 isn't going beat the i5-2500k, not even at stock. So the option to go bulldozer, while purchasing two cpus overall in this case seems to be driven more by bias thoughts than logical understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post
Right now I really can't afford a Crossfire 6970 setup, in fact the 6970 is right at my budget limit, but I'm happy that it'll deliver what I pay for so that's at least a bonus.

I know BD is an unknown, I just was wondering what others in my position would do. My main concern is price, something that costs the American guys $200 can end up costing me nearly R3000.00 depending onw what the R/$ dollar does!
You are lost in space. The OP stated clearly that he can NOT AFFORD a dual card setup- PERIOD. Perhaps if you weren't so obsessed with trying to get people to go Intel maybe you would have time to actually read the thread you are posting in and would stop trying to put words in the OP's mouth.And YES, my "argument" has merit HERE. I am trying to answer the OPs question, not trying to dream up a fantasy system which he says he can not afford.
    
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post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post
Perhaps I should state exactly what I was thinking of, before things get out of hand. Seems asking about AMD/Intel is like people askking about Daiwa/Shimano on a fishing forum.

I was thinking:
PHII x4 965
Crosshair V Formula
8GB Ram
1TB HDD
600W PSU
Coolermaster HAF 912 Advanced
Radeon 6970

If I whent Intel it would be the same just core i5 2500K and Asus P8Z68 or P8P68 - Pro, they cost nearly the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post
Ya PSU is under review, I'm gonna try get this right first time, hence all the questions. Will a 700w PSU be ok for 6970 CF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared2608 View Post
I actually wanted a 955 but all our online retailers(cheapest option), are sold out!!

To clarify, I do want to Crossfire, but I can't buy two cards in one go, they're too expensive, hence wanting a system that can run Crossfire so that I can buy the second card when I replenish my bank balance, lol!
Point of fact (proof):

955 @ 3.8GHz /w GTX 580s @ 900 core:

http://3dmark.com/3dm11/1511026

Combined Score (measures how well the cpu can provide rendering information while doing physics): 20 fps

i5-2500k @ 5.2GHz /w GTX 470s @ 900 core:

http://3dmark.com/3dm11/1306217

Combined Score: 45 fps

More than double the performance of a 955 in a "gaming" situation for twice the price with lower end GPUs.

I think I'm done here, enjoy OP.
    
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