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[BBC] Hydrogen made by enzyme is faster and cheaper - Page 8

post #71 of 77
The purpose of that enzyme is to move ions from one side of a membrane to another, it's not "just changing the reaction rate of a chemical reaction." It's used to force ions against their concentration gradient. Of course it needs energy to work, in the form of ATP.

Combine that in an artificial membrane with a chloride pump and add in some ATP. Bam. Desalination. There are probably more energy efficient methods and that's a very simplistic view, but it's a sound concept.
Edited by aroc91 - 8/14/11 at 3:58pm
    
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post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post
The purpose of that enzyme is to move ions from one side of a membrane to another, it's not "just changing the reaction rate of a chemical reaction." It's used to force ions against their concentration gradient. Of course it needs energy to work, in the form of ATP.

Combine that in an artificial membrane with a chloride pump and add in some ATP. Bam. Desalination. There are probably more energy efficient methods and that's a very simplistic view, but it's a sound concept.
All right, I see your point, but now I don't get why that particular protein is considered an enzyme at all. Because isn't the definition of an enzyme just a protein that affects chemical reaction rates?
Edited by The_0ctogon - 8/15/11 at 2:55pm
    
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post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_0ctogon View Post
All right, I see your point now, but I now I don't get why that particular protein is considered an enzyme at all. Because isn't the definition of an enzyme just a protein that affects chemical reaction rates?
I think it's technically an enzyme because it breaks down ATP into ADP and inorganic phosphate, which it uses for energy, as opposed to a passive channel protein that doesn't bind and break ATP.

Don't quote me on that though, because they're usually classified as enzymes based on what happens to the substrate.

Edit: Yeah, it kinda makes sense as the name of that enzyme is K+/Na+-ATPase and it does catalyze the breakdown of ATP, even though that's just a byproduct of the "real" function of it.
Edited by aroc91 - 8/15/11 at 1:54pm
    
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post #74 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conner View Post
Humans can create more efficient life enzymes then life itself.

Win.
Not quite, that enzyme had been created by life to serve a specific purpose. We discovered that it doesn't serve our needs as well as we would like, so we created our own.

There is a distinct difference here.
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post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
Problem with hydrogen: fuel density.

Even compared to batteries, hydrogen just doesn't have the energy density to be a viable fuel option right now. If someone can figure out how to make it possible, awesome. But until they do, fuel cell cars aren't going anywhere [pun intended]
Even with the weight of a tank, a hydrogen fuel cell system is more energy dense than a Li-Ion battery system in a vehicle. Fuel cell vehicles work, all the major auto companies have invested billions in getting them to a viable state. Mass production is all that remains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intelfan View Post
The problem isn't getting hydrogen gas. It's storing it; that's the problem. Currently, there isn't any sustainable means of storing it in tanks. From what I calculated (if I did this right), 100Kmol/s is about 1g/min which isn't that much. One more thing, water isn't the only way to extract hydrogen, methane gas particularly in the midwest is quite abundant. Burning it will release a 3:1 ratio.
Why is storing it a problem? I'd like an explanation if you don't mind. Reforming of natural gas is the most energy efficient means of hydrogen production at the moment. Technically using solar and electrolysis is more 'efficient', but until something like what's referenced in this article comes to the mainstream, the effectiveness of current electrolysis catalysts is poor and the rate of hydrogen production is low compared to reforming of natural gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyboyd View Post
Exactly. Whoever figures out how to compress hydrogen safely will be a very, very rich person.

I seem to remember another alternative mentioned recently in the news section, an electric gel. Takes 5 minutes to fill a "battery" as opposed to the 9+ hours now.
My employer safely compresses hydrogen daily. I suppose we should be rich now?
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post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryboto View Post
Even with the weight of a tank, a hydrogen fuel cell system is more energy dense than a Li-Ion battery system in a vehicle. Fuel cell vehicles work, all the major auto companies have invested billions in getting them to a viable state. Mass production is all that remains.
Weight != volume
post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
Weight != volume
and?
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