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[TechReport] Crysis 2 tessellation: too much of a good thing? - Page 12

post #111 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
All of this is irrelevant. The only question anybody should be asking is: Does the game look amazing? The overwhelming majority of people would say absolutely. Take BF3 for instance. It is universally loved around here and bragged on as being a "true" PC game (I agree, it looks fantastic). Well, what if it turned out to have these same "useless polys"? I doubt anyone would say a word.

On the other hand, certain people around here have been looking for a reason to hate on Crysis 2 since before it even came out and this is just another glaring example of some irrelevant piece of info they can grab hold of to prove their point that "Teh Crisis 2 sucks and is cunsole port!!!1111!"

There's also an element of Nvidia hate going on with this article as well....
The game could've looked better if processing power wasn't diverted towards tesselating flat surfaces and other useless stuff.

Hell, if there wasn't so much wasted performance, you probably could use SSAA for it.
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post #112 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Didn't answer my question--what's the point in requiring a gfx card to calculate values and variables that are never used to render something?
Apparently the point is to make a great looking game, which Crytek succeeded in. All of those useless values and variables contribute to the overall graphics of the game, whether you like it or not....
post #113 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Apparently the point is to make a great looking game, which Crytek succeeded in. All of those useless values and variables contribute to the overall graphics of the game, whether you like it or not....
The point is that they dont lol. They dont contribute at all. flat is flat no matter how many polygons u add it will look the same. The game could have looked much better if they actually would be coded better. Its like making a road up a mountain. The guy with 400hp will not complain because he will say finally they made something that i can use my 400hp and he enjoys the road. The other guys with 130hp are suffering. So to save time and money they made a short road and cars are suffering instead of a longer road.
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post #114 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Didn't answer my question--what's the point in requiring a gfx card to calculate values and variables that are never used to render something?
Well it depends on if they're really being sent to the GPU or not. This is what I'm curious about, whether they're occluding water that is underneath mesh, or if they're allowing it to go to the GPU to be culled by the Z-buffer? There's no way to know unless you run a utility like NVPerfHud. Even if you can get the camera under the mesh and see the water down there, that doesn't tell you anything, because if you can see the water with the camera then it wouldn't be occluded, what you need to know is if it's being sent to the GPU when it isn't visible.
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post #115 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
Well it depends on if they're really being sent to the GPU or not. This is what I'm curious about, whether they're occluding water that is underneath mesh, or if they're allowing it to go to the GPU to be culled by the Z-buffer? There's no way to know unless you run a utility like NVPerfHud. Even if you can get the camera under the mesh and see the water down there, that doesn't tell you anything, because if you can see the water with the camera then it wouldn't be occluded, what you need to know is if it's being sent to the GPU when it isn't visible.
Yeah, very true--I caught that a few pages back, but I don't understand it enough to know what the situation really is. I'd like to think that they're not wasted calculations, but I can't say that with any amount of certainty.
    
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post #116 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
But you are ignoring the end result which is that Crysis 2 does look incredible. However they achieved this is irrelevant to me. You (and the article) assume that these polys are never seen and are useless but thats not correct. It all combines to make the finished product, no matter how insignificant it may seem to you.

A highly detailed slab of concrete may seem funny to you, but I immediately noticed a vast improvement to the game's overall graphics the instant I first tried it with DX11. And yes, that includes the concrete slabs and "useless" water rendering....

Oh, and just read the conclusion for the Nvidia bashing. They seem to insinuate that Nvida and Crytek are in on some secret plot to make AMD look bad (which I would just call good business) and further conclude that they will probably end up removing C2 as a benchmark because it would be unfair to poor AMD. Give me a break....
You are missing the point entirely. As in not even remotely close. Noone is arguing that your hardware cannot crank out every last detail that the game has to offer at an enjoyable framerate, nor that you should be able to enjoy those intricate details. Your arrogant pride makes you feel that way.

The fact of the matter is that Crytek has failed to deliver a QUALITY game to their fans. Due to their failure to properly optimize a game and have so many unneccesary polygons, they have alienated the majority of their fans. I should be able to play the game on high settings , hell with tweaking I should be able to enjoy ultra, at a playable level. The fact is that I cannot. They have had many oversights, bugs, glitches, etc that have taken away from the game.

Congratulations on your extravagant purchase of a computer, that is truly not insanely more powerfull that my own.

Extra polygons on surfaces that are not visable at all in the game equates to waisted resources. No matter how you look at it, it is true. If you cannot see it, without a no clipping cheat to fall through the floor, then why is so much detail put into it?
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post #117 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Apparently the point is to make a great looking game, which Crytek succeeded in. All of those useless values and variables contribute to the overall graphics of the game, whether you like it or not....
How are useless values and variables contributing to something? They're useless, by definition, and hence a waste of system resources. Look, I'm not going to berate you for having a great system capable of maxing crysis 2 with DX11, so you don't need to keep defending it. But do you think that the processing overhead that goes into generating values that are never used to render something could be put to better use? Or, for example, not requiring those calculations, such that lower-powered systems can achieve higher performance? If your only response is going to be "who cares, it all makes the game look great on my system," then you're clearly not understanding the point of our whole discussion on this.
Edited by guyladouche - 8/17/11 at 11:51am
    
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post #118 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post
Fail comparison is fail.
Prove it isn't then...
Nano suit 2 is meant to make it easier for the console controllers, therefore it's exactly the same as aim aid.
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post #119 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magariz View Post
Extra polygons on surfaces that are not visable at all in the game equates to waisted resources. No matter how you look at it, it is true. If you cannot see it, without a no clipping cheat to fall through the floor, then why is so much detail put into it?
While I agree with most your post, I do want people in this thread to realize there are very often polygons in places where you can never see them, and that's not always a bad thing. For example in Call Of Duty games they often do things like create a building with 2 or 3 stories, and let the designers place only the top two floors above the ground in some cases, 1 floor in another, and all 3 in another case. This allows the building to be instanced three times in a scene, which saves memory, and allows the designers flexibility on the visuals in a scene they create. So in some cases half or more of the building is underground where nobody will ever see it unless they cheat and remove clipping/collision to go through the ground. The key thing to remember here is that this technique saves on memory, and also shortens loading times, so having polygons you can never see is not always a waste of resources, it's a trade-off, you put a little more work on the GPU, but save memory in the process.

The trick is all in the illusion, if the player will never notice and the game runs well, then who cares? The problem only comes if these techniques are causing performance problems, in which case they're not doing it right.
Edited by lordikon - 8/17/11 at 11:57am
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post #120 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
While I agree with most your post, I do want people in this thread to realize there are very often polygons in places where you can never see them, and that's not always a bad thing. For example in Call Of Duty games they often do things like create a building with 2 or 3 stories, and let the designers place only the top two floors above the ground in some cases, 1 floor in another, and all 3 in another case. This allows the building to be instanced three times in a scene, which saves memory, and allows the designers flexibility on the visuals in a scene they create. So in some cases half or more of the building is underground where nobody will ever see it unless they cheat and remove clipping/collision to go through the ground. The key thing to remember here is that this technique saves on memory, and also shortens loading times, so having polygons you can never see is not always a waste of resources, it's a trade-off, you put a little more work on the GPU, but save memory in the process.

The trick is all in the illusion, if the player will never notice and the game runs well, then who cares? The problem only comes if these techniques are causing performance problems, in which case they're not doing it right.
Should have said excessive polygons as I do understand what you are tlaking about.
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WD 2TB Green Samsung lightscribe 22x Sata dvd burner Thermaltake V1 Win7 64bit 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [TechReport] Crysis 2 tessellation: too much of a good thing?