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[TechReport] Crysis 2 tessellation: too much of a good thing? - Page 13

post #121 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Its not Crytek or Nvidia's fault that AMD GPU's suffer at higher poly counts. I for one am glad to have a game that justifies the expense I incurred to get 580's over 6970's. The article was purely a hit piece, plain and simple. Why should Nvida users have their results discarded just because the competing cards can't keep up?

As far as processing "useless polys" my original point still stands: Crysis 2 on Ultra looks amazing and tessellation is a big part of that, regardless of where its utilized....

All that being said, I think I'm going to retire from this thread to go play some Crysis 2 maxed out! Cheers!
You really don't understand what we're talking about... so why don't you go back to just playing a great looking game. Leave the technical stuff to other people....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
While I agree with most your post, I do want people in this thread to realize there are very often polygons in places where you can never see them, and that's not always a bad thing. For example in Call Of Duty games they often do things like create a building with 2 or 3 stories, and let the designers place only the top two floors above the ground in some cases, 1 floor in another, and all 3 in another case. This allows the building to be instanced three times in a scene, which saves memory, and allows the designers flexibility on the visuals in a scene they create. So in some cases half or more of the building is underground where nobody will ever see it unless they cheat and remove clipping/collision to go through the ground. The key thing to remember here is that this technique saves on memory, and also shortens loading times, so having polygons you can never see is not always a waste of resources, it's a trade-off, you put a little more work on the GPU, but save memory in the process.

The trick is all in the illusion, if the player will never notice and the game runs well, then who cares? The problem only comes if these techniques are causing performance problems, in which case they're not doing it right.
Are the out of sight water polygons moving? If so, that would mean geometry processing is being wasted?
Edited by DuckieHo - 8/17/11 at 12:11pm
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post #122 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecchi-BANZAII!!! View Post
Prove it isn't then...
Nano suit 2 is meant to make it easier for the console controllers, therefore it's exactly the same as aim aid.
There's an apparent difference between the game playing itself for you and a more convenient control configuration. Are you debating merely for the sake of debating?
    
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post #123 of 179
Wahhhhhhhhh, Crysis 2 isn't DX11!

/fast forward through time

Wahhhhhhhh, Crysis 2 overuses DX11 features and AMD sucks at rendering them!
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post #124 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkahuna360 View Post
There is one thing I liked about console gamers that I will always like more than PC gamers. THE PEOPLE WHO PLAYED THE GAME JUST APPRECIATED THAT THEY COULD PLAY IT AND DIDN'T CARE.

Appreciate that they could play it?! Last time I checked it wasn't for free. Nor was it godsent to us mere mortal gamers

There are 10000 other games out there. THEY should be thankful we chose to buy their game, not the other way around.
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post #125 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
You really don't understand what we're talking about... so why don't you go back to just playing a great looking game. Leave the technical stuff to other people....


Are the out of sight water polygons moving? If so, that would mean geometry processing is being wasted?
Depends on the implementation of the water, a lot of games use a flat plane for water and then have an animating texture with normal or parallax occlusion mapping to give the waves some "depth". Having a flat plane also makes it easier to implement things like the water physics for swimming, and knowing when to switch the shaders' to render underwater effects. You'll see in quite a few games that if you manage to get the camera positioned to part of the view is underwater and part of it is above the water that the water will sometimes be a lot more clear (easier to see through), and this is because they're using the camera's position calculated against a plane to determine what shaders to use, so if the water is moving this becomes more difficult and expensive to do. Often more expensive water implementations are visibly better looking but the player can never actually get in the water.

So to answer the original question, if the water vertices are actually moving to form waves, and are out of sight, that is significantly more expensive than a flat water plane. I would hope they're not doing that.
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post #126 of 179
Which ever direction DuckieHo is facing is the right one so its hopeless to face the other direction. As far as this game goes its replay value is much much lower then Crysis 1 so its not really a problem.
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post #127 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
Vastly superior graphics to C2 on Ultra? Thats just ridiculous. The game is flippin gorgeous already (hell it was gorgeous in DX9)....
People said the same thing about Quake's graphics in 1995.

If you think there isn't room for considerable improvement in Crysis 2's graphics, you are completely mistaken, and either blind, or unimaginative to the point it could be called a neurological disorder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
I read the article and its basically nothing but a hit piece on Crytek/Nvidia. My original statement in this thread still stands: I don't give two craps about how a game is coded as long as it looks great and plays great. Crysis 2 delivers both. Period.
Maybe it delivers both on nearly 1,000 dollars of GPUs, but it could look better and play better on far less, with not a whole lot of effort.

Quite frankly the game runs like piss for how it looks, even on NVIDIA hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post
I for one am glad to have a game that justifies the expense I incurred to get 580's over 6970's.
If you had a ton of cinder blocks laying around, would you leave them in the bed your F350 to justify the expense you incurred on the upgraded engine option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
So to answer the original question, if the water vertices are actually moving to form waves, and are out of sight, that is significantly more expensive than a flat water plane. I would hope they're not doing that.
Pretty sure they are, just like they did in the first game.

I once fell through a map (no where near any visible water) and found the "water table", animated with tesselated poly waves and all.
Edited by Blameless - 8/17/11 at 1:58pm
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post #128 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post
There's an apparent difference between the game playing itself for you and a more convenient control configuration. Are you debating merely for the sake of debating?
By convenient you mean no more maximum power/speed, only automatic perks.
Convenient and lazy are different things.
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post #129 of 179
I really don't see what the big deal is. So Crysis 2 isn't perfectly optimized... ok. How many games really are?

Developers take shortcuts all the time to save time and money. I'm sure it's easier to globally apply tess to all layers than just in specific instances when X object is Y distance from the screen. And on hardware properly equipped to handle heavy tessellation, the extra overhead is a non-issue.

I mean I'm using weaker cards than Majin at nearly 2x his resolution and the game was perfectly playable for me (40-50fps avg) completely maxed.

If AMD's flagship cards weren't hamstrung by their low tessellation unit count, this wouldn't even be a news story. It seems pretty tinfoil hat-ish to think this is some conspiracy against AMD imo.
post #130 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
This isn't Nvidia's fault, they didn't force Crytek to make an idiotic decision like adding extra polygons to flat areas of mesh. I'm not a big fan of Nvidia, but this isn't on them, this time...

Crytek was just giving the PC elitists what they asked for: DX11 and tessellation to max out their hardware, even if they can barely notice it. I'm frankly surprised they even released the patch, almost none of their paying customers gave a crap about it.
I agree that it is not Nvidia's fault, it is Crytek's fault. Nvidia paid Crytek in various ways to ensure that the update would function better on Nvidia's cards. That being said is was Crytek is accepted this and implemented this.

At the end of the day its just the same old same old. One of the reasons I am glad to support AMD.
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