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post #11 of 21
Go CAT 6a if you can, its the best cable for now, it is not a pain to install, and even though its overkill, quad shielded RG6 will ensure you have no interference. Belden are good but overpriced on most things, go to www.monoprice.com. Same Cables, awesome price
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post #12 of 21
The Belden Cat5e I use is bonded pairs. The only difference between it and Cat6 is the center + divider between each pair. The performance of a UTP segment is most dependent on how it's installed. If say Cat6 is yanked through a hole in a stud in a careless way and yanked at at angle to the hole it can move/distort/bend/crush/twist ratio/ the UTP pairs and impact performance. The Belden bonded pairs electrically perform BETTER than Cat6 spec. As for quad coax, it actually has a negative impact on signal propagation in the l-band space and performs INFERIOR to regular RG6. The Belden coax is a tri-shield design in that banana peel and is SUPERIOR to quad coax. That coax is very similar to 1694a the best coax on the planet used for SDI. 1694a is also tri-shield DuoBond Plus. Also monoprice mostly sells assemblies and if they sell raw coax and cat6 it's gunna be mainland Chinese crap made by co-partner.

BTW Thedark1337 do you pull or do structured wiring for a living? Well I do... Quad coax is a total waste of time, has poor performance compared to other coaxes, and is a ROYAL PITA to work with!!! I've pulled thousands and thousands of... KM of the stuff and I outta know!

PS 7915A has ALMOST the same electrical performance as 1694a !!!!!

Shield Effectiveness - Transfer Impedance

Notice the 1189A (quad) transfer impedance is higher than the tri-shield and radically jumps with frequency!!! Quad coax is a no no for L-band (satellite tv) and people that say otherwise don't know electrical theory or how to even read those charts let alone use this formula to calculate it Zt = ( 1 / Io ) x ( dV / dx )...
Edited by HiroPro - 8/18/11 at 8:49pm
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post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedark1337 View Post
Belden are good but overpriced on most things
I think your confusing Belkin with Belden buddy... ROTFL

Belden is a very famous American company that's well over a hundred years old. Alexander Bell ordered cable from Belden... The name comes from one of the first modern dielectic/insulation used for cable that they patented.

Belkin is some friggin american chinese cable importer that stencils product. They are the BS artists that convinced people they needed gold plated cables for their printers that cost $75 bucks back in the day... and checkout their most recent behavior in the next post.
Edited by HiroPro - 8/18/11 at 8:43pm
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post #14 of 21
Belkin's history is in a bunch of snake oil cable just like Monster. They really are fraudsters and I'd never support Belkin in any way.

Taken from Wikipedia entry on Belkin
Quote:
In 2003, Belkin released a home use wireless router which would occasionally replace users' HTTP requests with an advertisement for Belkin's filtering software. Belkin received some intense criticism for this from technically literate customers and others who described it as a man-in-the-middle attack or a form of session hijacking. Belkin initially treated this as a public relations problem rather than a highly inappropriate action on their part, but later relented and issued a firmware update deleting this functionality from the product.

In early 2009, a Belkin 'online sales representative' was discovered paying Amazon.com, Newegg and Buy.com users to manipulate reviews of a notoriously buggy Belkin router. Belkin's President, Mark Reynoso, responded to criticism, saying that the company does not engage in unethical practices, noting however that 'one of our employees' may have been responsible.On January 19, 2009, gizmodo.com published a letter from an anonymous Belkin worker, where the employee claims that for years all workers were pressed upon to "do whatever is needed to get good product reviews and good press", which included "sending blog writers a device with custom firmware that hides known bugs", "faking hardware logo certifications", as well as "writing poor reviews of competitors products".
And you think I'm using that company's product in my million dollar mansion installs buddy?

ROTFL OUT LOUD
Edited by HiroPro - 8/18/11 at 8:43pm
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post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
hiro your pm box is maxed out.
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post #16 of 21
Thanks to HiroPro for this "spot-on" info on the subject!

I have been in the residential wiring of homes for over 25 years now (man am I getting old ) and he has hit on what is the best way to do this IMO. I am also a computer tech which helps with the data understanding of this form of installation.

I am using the same cabling (Belden 7876S) and the plastic low voltage boxes and it is the only way to go.
Check out the info sources that he has given and take a bit to see how this type of cabling should be done so that you can make sure it is installed by your contractor correctly.
Anything like this needs to be done right to make it work effectively.

I have seen contractors run this form of cabling "mostly" correct but then do stupid things like run the cable through a large hole that carries standard wiring! WRONG, but they don't understand data line interference and the problems with doing things like this haphazardly.

Also be aware of being careful in the pulling and installation of the cable. Too many people will just yank the cable around and put kinks or under minimum radius bends in it and affect its overall performance. This happens when 1 person tries to do the pulling themselves without help. Get a second or even third person to help pull the cables CAREFULLY.

Watch out for installers trying to use metal staples on it as well. Too many will "overdrive" the staples and deform (or squish) the cabling and again degrade the performance of it.

It is not rocket science to get a good installation of this stuff, but it is different from regular electric and most old time electricans who have not worked with data equipment don't worry about it. So take a little extra time and get the installation right and you will be rewarded with a system that will outlive you and perform great for years to come.

Bill

PS Take more pictures of the installation of your wiring than you ever thought of!! I photo document all my jobs and provide the homeowner with a CD at the completion of the job to keep for their future reference. It will prevent someone from cutting through cables at some time in the future if there arises a need to remodel or get into any walls for repairs.
Photos and a written journal are a life saver a few years down the road and it can also show you regular electric wiring and the plumbing for the home.
Edited by Beeiilll - 8/21/11 at 7:22am
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post #17 of 21
Interesting, I have a few Belkin products, and what you said about them we tend to only hear about Monster Cables over here in the UK

Didn't realize they are that bad
post #18 of 21
THANKS Beeiilll for the complements!!! Very much appreciated coming from an expert such as yourself with 25 years of experience. I also have to second the point about staples. I've seen RG6 damaged with staples many times and cable crush/distortion has a major negative effect for L-band and LNB voltage shorts. Not to mention signal reflection and impedance bumps. Be careful kckyle do not crush any cables with staples and allow proper sweeps/bends and never put a staple in the apex of a corner.

PS Thanks for the tips!!! I do take photos but most of the ones I have are of bad wiring jobs.



Gotta like the idiots sign "Do Not Touch Any of These Wires"


^This is why HFC will win the war. That's a Telco large CO. And you wonder why your DSL only get's 5mbit... DUH!^
Edited by HiroPro - 8/22/11 at 4:52am
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post #19 of 21
No problem, you are welcome.

I'm sure that you and I could write a book on this if we took the time to really think out things. My reply was to just get the basics as I see them out there and what I have seen that causes problems later on.
Too many times installers are in a big rush (read time is money here) and can't be bothered to take a little extra care when it makes so much of a difference to the overall job.

I would liket o mention to Kckyle that he wants to be sure to watch the insulaton installing on this new house very carefully as well. No one thing will effect the life costs more than insulation!
Think watching money bleeding out through small cracks or spots where the insulation was not properly installed. It really adds up and can cost a lot during the course of a year.
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post #20 of 21
More great points on insulation and vapor barrier. Boy I wish I worked with you as a contractor! I can see we would get along fantastic with total faith as half the time I'm worried about electricians with the automation/AV stuff. Those open back units will not past inspection on outside walls in my area UNLESS you use these little plastic... They are made of the same plastic as UV vapor barrier but thicker and they are profiled to fit over a box... Not sure what you call them. I got away with using those on outside walls with my inspector. It had to be taped well with the vapor barrier but that was no problem.

Edited by HiroPro - 8/22/11 at 5:58am
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