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12+hour prime. Is it really necessary? - Page 4

post #31 of 63
I say run it for 6 hours max. if you can pass this, 50 passes of IBT with avx and play games like BC2 for hours on end with no crashes, your stable. running prime95 for 12 hours or more doesnt make any sense to me.

EDIT: forgot to mention you are going to get 100 different opinions on whats stable. the bottom line is you determine whats stable. everyone uses there pc alittle different and runs different programs. if its stable enough for you to use it, does it matter if you only pass 6 hours of p95 but not 7?
Edited by GMcDougal - 8/19/11 at 12:56pm
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post #32 of 63
I like to run my little benchmark that iv created and added to.


Intel burn test standard x10
Intel burn test on maximum x5


Prime 95 12 hours stable (Iv gotten errors in the 8 hour mark)


And off course after this a 3d mark run to see how many extra marks i get.


Also playing games etc for the next week or so (fun testing )


And bam im stable. Some even run a 24 hour prime. But 12 is good for me.


Edit: Also run memtest86.
Edited by pent - 8/21/11 at 12:46am
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post #33 of 63
A real world example of an issue I have encountered recently on my sig system would be crashes in MWLL.

Most people experience crashes in this game and attribute it to an unstable piece of software. However, once I adjusted my settings to the point where they would not fail a 30 hour Linpack run, and could take dozens of hours of Prime95, while simultaneously heating the inside of my case, and especially my RAM, by running FurMark continually, my crashes in MWLL ceased.

This is not the first case I where an every day task for me had intermittent stability issues that could not be reliably isolated without days of intensive stress testing.

Also, Memtest86 is a crappy stress test. It's not threaded enough to put a real load on the memory or the memory controller and I have memory/IMC settings that will pass 24 hours of Memtest86+ but will fail Prime95 or 12 instances of HCI memtest for windows within a few minutes.

Yes, errors will eventually happen on any system, but if errors crop up within ~72 hours of turning on a test, and do so repeatedly, something is wrong. Random errors from things like radioactive decay or cosmic rays should not happen more frequently than once a month or so on an otherwise stable system.

Most people can live with iffy stability, but I am not willing to tolerate it, if it can be avoided.
Edited by Blameless - 8/19/11 at 2:21pm
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post #34 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinitroN View Post
They didn't do memtest86 or were doing it wrong.

Could you please provide one case where this happened. I'm sure you can search these forums if they existed.

In any case, there are many cases of 12+ hours or prime95 that are unstable in linpack within 20 minutes. Refer to my previous link.
You're missing the point, no stability program is completely thorough. No combination is either. And it depends on the CPU as well... one might work better for sandy bridge and another might be better for yours. Doesn't make IBT / memtest better its just different.

Also, IBT with AVX is the stupidest and least practical stress test out there. I don't know if you are using AVX or not but all it does is create heat that you will 100% NEVER reach in your use (never ever, its hard enough to reach Prime temps, now try reaching 15C higher than that) which are so high that they force you to downclock just so you can run the test without burning up. Or buy cooling that you 100% do not need which I'm sure a few people do because they don't know better. Yeah, very useful wonderful program indeed.

I've read plenty of examples where IBT passes and Prime fails, its happened to me in fact at my lower overclocks. In my experience Prime is superior for sandy bridge stability and it yields reasonable temps which I can rely on and actually use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
A real world example of an issue I have encountered recently on my sig system would be crashes in MWLL.

Most people experience crashes in this game and attribute it to an unstable piece of software. However, once I adjusted my settings to the point where they would not fail a 30 hour Linpack run, and could take dozens of hours of Prime95, while simultaneously heating the inside of my case, and especially my RAM, by running FurMark continually, my crashes in MWLL ceased.
You really can't just blame the CPU just like you can't just blame the software alone... it might be a combination of both, maybe the game even has serious problems itself you just don't know. Especially if you've already passed significant degrees of stress testing, which indicates the CPU is working well. Did you stress test the video card alone in the beginning too? Then the combination of the two might also be unstable, so it could be the video card, it could be the CPU, or it could be the software... or a combination.

All of this discussion goes down to the simple point that your never going to have a 100% stable system, it becomes an obsession and its kind of frustrating to hear arguments over what proves stability or not...... nothing proves it. They are merely sufficient for the most part but never completely thorough. Use it as a guide and then move on because you could spend months and months trying to get it 100% stable and it just becomes a massive epic waste of time.
    
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post #35 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
You're missing the point, no stability program is completely thorough. No combination is either. And it depends on the CPU as well... one might work better for sandy bridge and another might be better for yours. Doesn't make IBT / memtest better its just different.

Also, IBT with AVX is the stupidest and least practical stress test out there. I don't know if you are using AVX or not but all it does is create heat that you will 100% NEVER reach in your use (never ever, its hard enough to reach Prime temps, now try reaching 15C higher than that) which are so high that they force you to downclock just so you can run the test without burning up. Or buy cooling that you 100% do not need which I'm sure a few people do because they don't know better. Yeah, very useful wonderful program indeed.

I've read plenty of examples where IBT passes and Prime fails, its happened to me in fact at my lower overclocks. In my experience Prime is superior for sandy bridge stability and it yields reasonable temps which I can rely on and actually use.



You really can't just blame the CPU just like you can't just blame the software alone... it might be a combination of both, maybe the game even has serious problems itself you just don't know. Especially if you've already passed significant degrees of stress testing, which indicates the CPU is working well. Did you stress test the video card alone in the beginning too? Then the combination of the two might also be unstable, so it could be the video card, it could be the CPU, or it could be the software... or a combination.

All of this discussion goes down to the simple point that your never going to have a 100% stable system, it becomes an obsession and its kind of frustrating to hear arguments over what proves stability or not...... nothing proves it. They are merely sufficient for the most part but never completely thorough. Use it as a guide and then move on because you could spend months and months trying to get it 100% stable and it just becomes a massive epic waste of time.
By your logic we don't need any stress tests!

Last time I checked stress tests were supposed to subject our hardware to extreme circumstances to test if they would hold up under those conditions. Sorry IBT/Linpack/LinX is too thorough of a test for you....
    
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post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
You really can't just blame the CPU just like you can't just blame the software alone... it might be a combination of both, maybe the game even has serious problems itself you just don't know.
I verified it was my memory that was overheating that was causing the issue.

Before my testing (which took about 10 days total), the game would crash roughly once every 3 hours.

After extensively testing a variety of components and settings, I discovered that when my memory was being stressed by LinX at a certain problem size, while my video card was running FurMark, it would reliably fail.

I tried various fixes, and came to the conclusions that temperatures were the issue, so I backed off slightly on memory speed, and reduced the memory voltage from 1.65v to 1.5. This saved me at least 15C on the memory, and my problems went away.

After multiple 6-15 hours sessions, there have been no crashes in the game since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
Especially if you've already passed significant degrees of stress testing, which indicates the CPU is working well. Did you stress test the video card alone in the beginning too? Then the combination of the two might also be unstable, so it could be the video card, it could be the CPU, or it could be the software... or a combination.
I stressed everything, alone (as much as is possible), and then in every conceivable combination.

I stated in my previous post that I isolated the problem, and I did. It was not the CPU, or the GPU, or anything but the memory settings I was using and the temperatures my memory was hitting.

This is the entire reason I stress test, to find problems, so that I know what to fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donkrx View Post
Also, IBT with AVX is the stupidest and least practical stress test out there. I don't know if you are using AVX or not but all it does is create heat that you will 100% NEVER reach in your use (never ever, its hard enough to reach Prime temps, now try reaching 15C higher than that) which are so high that they force you to downclock just so you can run the test without burning up. Or buy cooling that you 100% do not need which I'm sure a few people do because they don't know better. Yeah, very useful wonderful program indeed.
The harsher the test, the faster it tends to find issues.

Also, if you don't test with AVX, some instructions are going completely unused. What if you use a program later that makes heavy use of AVX?

As for cooling, I want my system to continue chugging along, without hiccups, even if the worst case environmental scenario comes to pass (an AC failure in the summer), so hot stress tests, in high ambients (I don't test until I bring the ambients in my room up to 35C+), are preferable.
Edited by Blameless - 8/19/11 at 10:19pm
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post #37 of 63
If you think about it, just running prime95 for 24hrs is a very small amount of time compared to the years you will be using the computer. Even if you have to tweak voltages for a week or so.

IMO it's worth it to not have to worry about BSODs as much.
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post #38 of 63
havent done 6/12 hours of prime on my oc, but i do remember priming it for 2 hours, ibt 20 runs under maximum test, and lots of gaming, surfing etc etc. No bsods at all. Thats the time i considered my system stable..
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post #39 of 63
If its a 24/7 overclock then yes, I consider 12hr prime blend absolutely necessary. I also make sure it can complete at least 50 passes of IBT.

And for those saying prime95 sucks for a stability test, I have had overclocks pass IBT but fail prime95 blend a few hours in. I think its best to use and pass both.
Edited by Derp - 8/20/11 at 4:36am
post #40 of 63
50 runs of Intel burn test is all you need.

If your overclock fails you have to decide if it could of failed because of heat and the longer you run a stress program the more heat can become a stability issue.

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