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[Pcworld] Apple Seeks Ban on All Galaxy Smartphones, Tablets in EU - Page 9

post #81 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
It's a common misconception that people are viewing the pictures as "altering evidence." In truth, that's one of the bases of the apple lawsuit is NOT that the phone or tab match the size of the iphone and ipad exactly (since you can't even patent the size of something), it's that the functionality and user interface are too similar--the whole point of the shrunken images was to show that at the same scale, both the phone and the tab have an appearance (and functionality) as near identical (as far as apple is concerned) to the iphone and ipad--and that IS their point. So showing the scaled pictures was very relevant.
You have to admit though, all handheld devices are going to have very similar, if not the same, ratio. Imagine holding a device on your hand where the length triumphs the width by a 3:1 ratio, just to not get sued by Apple?

It's akin to how the basic design of a mouse is the same all across the board. It's going to have left and right mouse buttons, which are the functionality of a mouse, and the size and the ratio are not going to differ a lot from product to product, as it needs to fit inside your palm/grip.

What Apple is saying is that no smartphones(smart pads) shall have a button down the middle, have a rectangular frame of a "pantented" ratio (...), have iconic representation of things and have a homescreen and an "app drawer" that will scroll the same way as Apple does.
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post #82 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
You have to admit though, all handheld devices are going to have very similar, if not the same, ratio. Imagine holding a device on your hand where the length triumphs the width by a 3:1 ratio, just to not get sued by Apple?

It's akin to how the basic design of a mouse is the same all across the board. It's going to have left and right mouse buttons, which are the functionality of a mouse, and the size and the ratio are not going to differ a lot from product to product, as it needs to fit inside your palm/grip.

What Apple is saying is that no smartphones(smart pads) shall have a button down the middle, have a rectangular frame of a "pantented" ratio (...), have iconic representation of things and have a homescreen and an "app drawer" that will scroll the same way as Apple does.
But if someone patented the design for a mouse, they are entitled to royalties for everyone that wants to use that design to make a mouse. Apple feels that this situation falls under that category (and hence the maker of a device should pay to license that technology, or be barred from selling it). That's why Apple isn't pursuing litigation against hardware manufacturers where the scaled ratio doesn't yield a very similar functionality/interface to the the iphone/ipad.

I think it's pretty absurd, especially when the issues also come down to the "functionality" of the device, which inevitably means the user interface--which definitely means the OS. But we don't see Apple taking on Google--I think because it would be too big of a fight.
    
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post #83 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
But if someone patented the design for a mouse, they are entitled to royalties for everyone that wants to use that design to make a mouse. Apple feels that this situation falls under that category (and hence the maker of a device should pay to license that technology, or be barred from selling it). That's why Apple isn't pursuing litigation against hardware manufacturers where the scaled ratio doesn't yield a very similar functionality/interface to the the iphone/ipad.

I think it's pretty absurd, especially when the issues also come down to the "functionality" of the device, which inevitably means the user interface--which definitely means the OS. But we don't see Apple taking on Google--I think because it would be too big of a fight.
Which pretty much boils down to the question: How do you patent such things as a design that is not particularly associated with a company's image or brand but is actually a basic requirement and necessity of a said device?

Anyone can argue that Apple came up with the idea of "Icons" which was derived from NeXT and Lisa (iirc). However, these "icons" that we use on operating systems nowadays is the foundation of our current user interface that no one company should be able to patent it.

If this had been a legit complaint Apple should have brought it at the time where the very first line of Galaxy S was introduced in Korea in July of 2010. This is a very bad timing indeed; it is hard to believe that Apple's lawyers took about a year to prepare this case that they're claiming it to be an obvious and a blatant one. If it were, why did they take this long to prep the case?

This reminds me of the U.S. Patent office rejecting Intel's request to patent 80586 due to the fact that a string of numbers cannot be patented. I agree, it would be silly to put down (TM) or (R) every time I wrote the number 80586 when it appears in my calculations. But can't the same thing be said for basics of interface? Do I have to see an Apple logo every time I touch on icons?
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post #84 of 145
why bother ?
just choose wich handphone suits us...
let them fight i don't care....

just like : my parents and their parents in bad relationship , fight...why bother ?
if me and my friends got no problem why fight too /botheR ?
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post #85 of 145
Yeah, I'm boycotting Apple.

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post #86 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kppanic View Post
Which pretty much boils down to the question: How do you patent such things as a design that is not particularly associated with a company's image or brand but is actually a basic requirement and necessity of a said device?

Anyone can argue that Apple came up with the idea of "Icons" which was derived from NeXT and Lisa (iirc). However, these "icons" that we use on operating systems nowadays is the foundation of our current user interface that no one company should be able to patent it.

If this had been a legit complaint Apple should have brought it at the time where the very first line of Galaxy S was introduced in Korea in July of 2010. This is a very bad timing indeed; it is hard to believe that Apple's lawyers took about a year to prepare this case that they're claiming it to be an obvious and a blatant one. If it were, why did they take this long to prep the case?

This reminds me of the U.S. Patent office rejecting Intel's request to patent 80586 due to the fact that a string of numbers cannot be patented. I agree, it would be silly to put down (TM) or (R) every time I wrote the number 80586 when it appears in my calculations. But can't the same thing be said for basics of interface? Do I have to see an Apple logo every time I touch on icons?
Yeah, I agree--I think it boils down to using an antiquated patent system that grants far too broad of terms.

But it's pretty frequent that companies are aware of infringements, but don't pursue litigation until later (if at all). It's all about the benjamins. And also about the law(s) where the infringement occurs. For example, US patents and European patents are not interchangeable (i.e., having a US patent doesn't also qualify for a European one, and vice versa). Not sure what the laws are in Asia/Korea--could very well be that Apple didn't have the ability to pursue litigation there vs. in Europe where all of this started.

While I agree, trademarking a number alone should not be allowed, the design for the basics of an interface should be protected--someone had to do work to invent it, therefore they should get credit for it. It's a lot more advanced than picking a number to trademark/patent.

I still think that the way things are defined in patents are too broad--though I understand that's how the entire system is implemented, in terms of general/broad claims. If you read a sample patent for something like a chair, you'd be shocked at how general it is, and hence why it's so easy to defend claims made in a patent vs. accused infringements.
    
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post #87 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Yeah, I agree--I think it boils down to using an antiquated patent system that grants far too broad of terms.

But it's pretty frequent that companies are aware of infringements, but don't pursue litigation until later (if at all). It's all about the benjamins.
A lot of times lawsuits are a last resort. They are usually in "negotiations" for a long time before they go to court, sometimes for over a year. It takes a lot of resources to go to court and every single company would rather settle out of court if at all possible (as long as they reach a settlement they approve of, of course).

Of course, there would be absolutely no point to sue a company that is making little or no money for a product that infringes on your patent. If they pay you royalties per product sold but sell nothing it would be a huge waste of time for little to no gains. So it is true that they are after the money; they are a business after all.
    
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post #88 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugiik View Post
why bother ?
just choose wich handphone suits us...
let them fight i don't care....

just like : my parents and their parents in bad relationship , fight...why bother ?
if me and my friends got no problem why fight too /botheR ?
This is more than just two companies having a legal dispute. If apple wins then a competitior is removed from a major market. What if this continues? If the iPhone is the the only smart phone you could buy in Europe what is going to control the price of the iPhones? Or the quality? They could stick a mirror on an empty juice box for all it mattered. If you needed a smart phone and it was all that was available...you would have one.
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post #89 of 145
A ban on all Apple devices in North America would be nice
    
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post #90 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
It's a common misconception that people are viewing the pictures as "altering evidence." In truth, that's one of the bases of the apple lawsuit is NOT that the phone or tab match the size of the iphone and ipad exactly (since you can't even patent the size of something), it's that the functionality and user interface are too similar--the whole point of the shrunken images was to show that at the same scale, both the phone and the tab have an appearance (and functionality) as near identical (as far as apple is concerned) to the iphone and ipad--and that IS their point. So showing the scaled pictures was very relevant.
Perhaps somebody should mail a photo of the iPad scaled down to an iPod Touch size to Apple. They'll notice they're very similar, and try to sue themselves.
But seriously, that's like saying that an overhead projector screen can infringe a movie theatre screen patent, because scaled down they've the same usage...
    
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