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FPS Optical Gaming Mouse (G400, DeathAdder, Ikari, MS 3.0) - Page 2

post #11 of 30
I used to use the DeathAdder then switched to a Logitech G700. Unfortunately I sold my DA....but I'm going to be buying another one here in the near future!

Lesson: once you use DA...it's the best and nothing else compares biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 30
/facepalm

ms ime 3.0 has no angle snapping nor 800dpi, get your facts straight

I'd say buy a cm spawn and be done with it, DA isn't as comfortable as the legendary explorer 3.0, mx518/g400 has angle snapping that bothers the hell out of me when i play cs 1.6, ikari is too bulky and has angle snapping also.
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post #13 of 30
I have all these mice and I'll try to give you the information you need.

Build quality wise, the newer MS3.0 is among the worse out of the bunch. Older versions of the mouse had a better side button construction / overall feel. After that, I personally felt that the Black edition of the DA was close to the G400, and the Ikari followed after.

G400=DABE/3G/3.5G>Ikari>3.0 My opinion.

The G400, DA, and Ikari Optical will perform exceptionally well on cloth surfaces. I don't think anyone will have have a problem with either of these as far as max malfunction/perfect control rate goes. The 3.0 on the other hand isn't recommended if you're using an extremely low sensitivity due to it's lower perfect control rate.

Performance wise: DA3G/3.5G=G400=Ikari Optical>3.0

Prediction: Both the 3.0 and Deathadder 3.5G natively have prediction/angle snapping/correction or w/e you want to call it on low or what many people call "off" The 3G version can call set it "off", but that requires flashing the firmware.

The Ikari and G400 have moderate amounts of this correction, but it's mainly a preference factor as a lot of people can either do good or bad with it on.

Lift off distance: The 3.0 is probably the best in this regard as it has the lowest lift off of the bunch.

3.0>DA3G(latest firmware only)>G400>Ikari Optical>DA3.5G

You can modify and "tape fix" the higher ones if they're a problem to you. Google it biggrin.gif

Weight: I believe the Ikari Optical is the lowest off the bunch. Followed by the G400/3.0 and then the DA's.

Ikari Optical (103g) G400 (105g) 3.0 (106-108g~) (DA3G 107-109g~) DA3.5G (111-113G~)

Not 100% sure on the last 3 since different scales show different weight. The first two are officially confirmed specs.

Scroll wheel: Out of the bunch, I preferred the Deathadders or Ikari's scroll wheel the most. The only problem with the two is that they'll wear down over time as where the G400's may stay clicky longer due to the mechanism they use. Sadly, I dislike the G400's wheel. The 3.0 is probably the worse out of the bunch as the plastic scroll wheel encoder will snap with heavy use.

DA= Ikari >G400> 3.0. My Opinion

Longevity: G400>DA= Ikari> 3.0.
post #14 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14650942 
I have all these mice and I'll try to give you the information you need.

Build quality wise, the newer MS3.0 is among the worse out of the bunch. Older versions of the mouse had a better side button construction / overall feel. After that, I personally felt that the Black edition of the DA was close to the G400, and the Ikari followed after.

G400=DABE/3G/3.5G>Ikari>3.0 My opinion.

The G400, DA, and Ikari Optical will perform exceptionally well on cloth surfaces. I don't think anyone will have have a problem with either of these as far as max malfunction/perfect control rate goes. The 3.0 on the other hand isn't recommended if you're using an extremely low sensitivity due to it's lower perfect control rate.

Performance wise: DA3G/3.5G=G400=Ikari Optical>3.0

Prediction: Both the 3.0 and Deathadder 3.5G natively have prediction/angle snapping/correction or w/e you want to call it on low or what many people call "off" The 3G version can call set it "off", but that requires flashing the firmware.

The Ikari and G400 have moderate amounts of this correction, but it's mainly a preference factor as a lot of people can either do good or bad with it on.

Lift off distance: The 3.0 is probably the best in this regard as it has the lowest lift off of the bunch.

3.0>DA3G(latest firmware only)>G400>Ikari Optical>DA3.5G

You can modify and "tape fix" the higher ones if they're a problem to you. Google it biggrin.gif

Weight: I believe the Ikari Optical is the lowest off the bunch. Followed by the G400/3.0 and then the DA's.

Ikari Optical (103g) G400 (105g) 3.0 (106-108g~) (DA3G 107-109g~) DA3.5G (111-113G~)

Not 100% sure on the last 3 since different scales show different weight. The first two are officially confirmed specs.

Scroll wheel: Out of the bunch, I preferred the Deathadders or Ikari's scroll wheel the most. The only problem with the two is that they'll wear down over time as where the G400's may stay clicky longer due to the mechanism they use. Sadly, I dislike the G400's wheel. The 3.0 is probably the worse out of the bunch as the plastic scroll wheel encoder will snap with heavy use.

DA= Ikari >G400> 3.0. My Opinion

Longevity: G400>DA= Ikari> 3.0.

You mention that the DeathAdder 3G can fully disable prediction through the use of custom firmware. Later, you mention that the LOD is only lowest when using the latest firmware.

Is the latest version of firmware available without prediction?

If so, then the ADNS-3668 running such a firmware would be the only sensor to be truly flawless in the sense that it has a perfect control speed of ~4 m/s, a malfunction speed of ~4.4 m/s, a low LOD (how much higher than the 3.0's 1-2 cds is this measurement? Is an estimate of 2 cds fair?), and exhibits no prediction.

All other sensors and firmware require trade-offs lowering perfect control/malfunction speeds or temporary solutions such as tape fixes to reduce LOD.

If this firmware does exist, the only question remains to find one's "perfect" mouse would be to use the existing DeathAdder shell or to build a frankenstein mouse using the same sensor/firmware.

I will check to see if this firmware exists and will edit this post accordingly.

EDIT: It does.

This may be bold(lol) but perhaps this conclusion should be stickied/added to a sticky? I am only drawing this conclusion based on information provided by Skylit in this post and his stickied performance sheet but it has taken me about a week to draw this conclusion independently and only after purchasing the Zowie MiCO and CM Spawn.

For those looking for a mouse with perfect control speed of ~4+ m/s, a malfunction speed of ~4+ m/s, a low LOD without need for a tape fix, and without prediction the only option is the ADNS-3668 running Razer's Razer DeathAdder Firmware Updater v1.39(NDC).

If a tapefix is applied, the ADNS-S3888 found in the DeathAdder 3.5Gs can also be considered truly flawless under the same standards.

A taped, jitter-free Abyssus using the ADNS-S3888 is close, but cannot be flashed to truly disable prediction.
Edited by Swaggerfeld - 8/20/11 at 2:12pm
post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggerfeld;14655044 
You mention that the DeathAdder 3G can fully disable prediction through the use of custom firmware. Later, you mention that the LOD is only lowest when using the latest firmware.

Is the latest version of firmware available without prediction?

If so, then the ADNS-3668 running such a firmware would be the only sensor to be truly flawless in the sense that it has a perfect control speed of ~4 m/s, a malfunction speed of ~4.4 m/s, a low LOD (how much higher than the 3.0's 1-2 cds is this measurement? Is an estimate of 2 cds fair?), and exhibits no prediction.

All other sensors and firmware require trade-offs lowering perfect control/malfunction speeds or temporary solutions such as tape fixes to reduce LOD.

If this firmware does exist, the only question remains to find one's "perfect" mouse would be to use the existing DeathAdder shell or to build a frankenstein mouse using the same sensor/firmware.

I will check to see if this firmware exists and will edit this post accordingly.

EDIT: It does.

This may be bold(lol) but perhaps this conclusion should be stickied/added to a sticky? I am only drawing this conclusion based on information provided by Skylit in this post and his stickied performance sheet but it has taken me about a week to draw this conclusion independently.

For those looking for a mouse with perfect control speed of ~4+ m/s, a malfunction speed of ~4+ m/s, a low LOD without need for a tape fix, and without prediction the only option is the ADNS-3668 running Razer's Razer DeathAdder Firmware Updater v1.39(NDC).

If a tapefix is applied, the ADNS-S3888 found in the DeathAdder 3.5Gs can also be considered truly flawless under the same standards.

A taped, jitter-free Abyssus using the ADNS-S3888 is close, but cannot be flashed to truly disable prediction.

Sorry that I didn't make that clear. I posted this at like 6 AM my time lol

As for the sheet, I procrastinate when I shouldn't as there's a lot I want to change. If you want access to the sheet, I'll add you provided you PM me with the google ID. If you already requested, then Ill log on to that email account and add you right away.

As for the Abyssus, it has prediction set low like the 3.5G and 3G w/ NDC.

Are you thinking about the Salmosa? That uses the original S3668 (prediction) and can't be flashed.
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14655602 
Sorry that I didn't make that clear. I posted this at like 6 AM my time lol

As for the sheet, I procrastinate when I shouldn't as there's a lot I want to change. If you want access to the sheet, I'll add you provided you PM me with the google ID. If you already requested, then Ill log on to that email account and add you right away.

As for the Abyssus, it has prediction set low like the 3.5G and 3G w/ NDC.

Are you thinking about the Salmosa? That uses the original S3668 (prediction) and can't be flashed.
No worries! I will PM you my Google ID once I've finished studying for the MCAT... Trying to limit my distractions, ya?

Ahhh, sorry. In regards to the prediction, I was assuming that there was a difference between the NDC firmware of the 3G, the 3.5G firmware that does not explicitly state whether it has DC or NDC, and the Abyssus. Are their respective degrees of prediction the same?
post #17 of 30
Skylit, prediction = angle snapping?

If yes, why are you writing some mice has set it low? I'm sure IntelliMouse has no angle snapping at all.
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14655771 
Skylit, prediction = angle snapping?

If yes, why are you writing some mice has set it low? I'm sure IntelliMouse has no angle snapping at all.

angle snapping is another word for prediction..the same as drift control and mouse correction
every mouse have prediction is just how "more" it is set at.
post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by avinin1;14655802 
every mouse have prediction is just how "more" it is set at.
I see no need to whole angle snapping function. If I can't feel it and there's no other proof I'll say there's no angle snapping.
post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggerfeld;14655748 
No worries! I will PM you my Google ID once I've finished studying for the MCAT... Trying to limit my distractions, ya?

Ahhh, sorry. In regards to the prediction, I was assuming that there was a difference between the NDC firmware of the 3G, the 3.5G firmware that does not explicitly state whether it has DC or NDC, and the Abyssus. Are their respective degrees of prediction the same?

The "3.5G Infrared " or "S3888" sensors are basically NDC from factory. There is no prediction firmware available for those mice.

They are similar, but I can't really confirm anything as I don't have a 3G DA on me at the moment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14655771 
Skylit, prediction = angle snapping?

If yes, why are you writing some mice has set it low? I'm sure IntelliMouse has no angle snapping at all.

Prediction, angle snapping, drift control, correction... it's all the same, just different terms used by different people or companies.

All mice have inherit amounts of correction, although a mouse like the intellimouse 3.0 or DA's have the degree of correction set low while a mouse like the G400 and Ikari have it set to what I call "moderate" amounts. Then there's the Kinzu sensor which literally forces you to draw straight lines.. I find it ironic how STMicroelectronics can produce a sensor with very low and very high correction.



Edit:

Here

30intelli.png

If the mouse truly had no prediction, those straight lines you see above would be impossible to draw.
Edited by Skylit - 8/20/11 at 3:03pm
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