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FPS Optical Gaming Mouse (G400, DeathAdder, Ikari, MS 3.0) - Page 3

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14655917 
If the mouse truly had no prediction, those straight lines you see above would be impossible to draw.
I don't agree. Try drawing fast.
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit;14655917 
The "3.5G Infrared " or "S3888" sensors are basically NDC from factory. There is no prediction firmware available for those mice.

They are similar, but I can't really confirm anything as I don't have a 3G DA on me at the moment.

Maybe we could have Derp test this for us? wink.gif

I think a straight line test between the 3668 running NDC firmware and the 3888 out-of-the-box would put this to bed.
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14656024 
I don't agree. Try drawing fast.
Speed is not a factor here. It's the inherent amount of prediction the mouse exhibits at any speed.

If you are reasoning that there will be less vertical travel when moving the mouse faster, then yes, the line may be straighter.. But this says nothing as to the mouse's inherent amount of prediction. It's there regardless of speed.

If you were to move the mouse in only perfectly straight lines, a mouse's prediction would not affect this. But no one really does this and it's not applicable to gaming; whenever movement is not perfectly straight, prediction fights to make it straight.
Edited by Swaggerfeld - 8/20/11 at 3:15pm
post #24 of 30
I think angle snapping works this way: every update sensor compares X and Y movement, if Y/X is less than set ratio than it ignores Y completely (same for X/Y). The result is straight horizontal / vertical line.

For example: angle snapping when Y/X <= 0.1:
if movement is: X=10 and Y=1 than X=10 Y=0
if X=10 and Y=2 than X=10 Y=2

Moving 3x faster:
X=30 Y=3 is still snapped

Moving 10x faster:
X=100 Y=10 is still snapped

Even if it's the same amount of angle snapping still faster movement means greater Y ignored. So it may be easier to see angle snapping in action when moving mouse faster (to some point of course).
Edited by Glymbol - 8/20/11 at 3:48pm
post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14656333 
I think angle snapping works this way: every update sensor compares X and Y movement, if Y/X is less than set ratio than it ignores Y completely (same for X/Y). The result is straight horizontal / vertical line.

For example: angle snapping when Y/X <= 0.1:
if movement is: X=10 and Y=1 than X=10 Y=0
if X=10 and Y=2 than X=10 Y=2

Moving 3x faster:
X=30 Y=3 is still snapped

Moving 10x faster:
X=100 Y=10 is still snapped

Even if it's the same amount of angle snapping still faster movement means greater Y ignored. So it may be easier to see angle snapping in action when moving mouse faster (to some point of course).

Yes, in this theoretical example using arbitrary figures, a greater amount of Y component is ignored but this is to a proportional amount of change in the X component. This means that the amount of Y ignored is of the same factor regardless of speed.

Assuming these distanced are over 1 second, 30 units of X relate to 3 units of Y which is ignored. This means that up to 10% of the X value can be ignored in the Y direction. In the faster example, 100 units of X relate to 10 units of Y which is ignored. This means that, again, up to 10% of the X value (0.1X) movement in the Y direction can be ignored.

There is a 10% degree of prediction exhibited at all speeds. Thus, prediction does not change with speed.

Haha, this came across as super elitist but as stated earlier I am in the midst of studying for the MCAT. It trains you to find true meaning in text and to offer explanation of this truth.grouphug.gif

EDIT: Oh, bro, you do state that there is the same amount of angle snapping at both speeds. Sorry.

I think your point here is that a greater Y distance can be ignored in relation to a greater X distance. This means that it will be easier to see angle snapping in action when moving further, not faster. I agree.
Edited by Swaggerfeld - 8/20/11 at 4:33pm
post #26 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks to all for the answers.

I finally will go with the G400...

Firstly because it's an upgraded MX518 with some better things. When i purschase the MX518 3 years ago, i was between the MS 3.0 and the MX518 but this article help me a lot http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=22

I like that it have more buttons, and the ergonomy, it's fits perfectly on my hand.
I think that the MS and SteelSeries are a step backward, and the Death Adder i think it's a great mouse but i preffer the G400 and it's u$s 10 more expensive with less buttons and with no the same ergonomy.

Thanks again
post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggerfeld;14656035 
Maybe we could have Derp test this for us? wink.gif

I think a straight line test between the 3668 running NDC firmware and the 3888 out-of-the-box would put this to bed.

My abyssus is supposed to get here on Tuesday so I can't provide results from it but I can post up some l33t paint lines of the DA 3G for now.

attachment.php?attachmentid=225333&d=1313910790
post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glymbol;14656333 
I think angle snapping works this way: every update sensor compares X and Y movement, if Y/X is less than set ratio than it ignores Y completely (same for X/Y). The result is straight horizontal / vertical line.

For example: angle snapping when Y/X <= 0.1:
if movement is: X=10 and Y=1 than X=10 Y=0
if X=10 and Y=2 than X=10 Y=2

Moving 3x faster:
X=30 Y=3 is still snapped

Moving 10x faster:
X=100 Y=10 is still snapped

Even if it's the same amount of angle snapping still faster movement means greater Y ignored. So it may be easier to see angle snapping in action when moving mouse faster (to some point of course).

If what you said is true then the faster you move the more prediction you will experience. Why faster not further? Because the movement buffer resets every x [ms] (1ms for 1000 Hz, 2ms for 500 Hz ...) and those pictures will show why it is important factor.

1.Fast(~1.6m/s):
fastmovementq.jpg
2.Slow(~0.05m/s):
slowmovement.jpg

As you can see when moving slow even one count in Y axis takes 33%-50% of X axis movement thus not triggering prediction on(when threshold of prediction is let's say 20%).
Under the same conditions, movement from picture 1 would be corrected (Y axis --> form ~9% to 0)

Conclusions:
Higher pooling rate causes less prediction when moving slowly.
Amount of prediction is expressed in %.
Prediction can be set to 0.

Edit:
There is one more thing.
If Glymbol is right then we are able to easly find out what % of prediction is applied with information from logger cheers.gif .
You have to compare the X and Y values(create simple program or do it manually wink.gif ) and search for the smallest fraction.
If prediction is set to 10% then we shouldn't be able to find anything lower than that biggrin.gif .

Edited by AquaSurfer - 8/22/11 at 5:34am
post #29 of 30
I dont know about all that stuff but I'm using the Gigabyte M8000X the one that came with the gtx590 and its great.
Backbreaker
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Backbreaker
(25 items)
 
BRUTALIS
(19 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 3930K @4.8 RAMPAGE IV EXTREME Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming  16 GB GSKILL RIPJAW Z 2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
256gb Samsung 840 pro 1 X Samsung 2tb HDD OCZ Vertex 2 60GB OCZ Vector 128GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Raystorm Copper edition  XSPC RIVE Chipset and VRM block  3 X XSPC RAZOR Titan Blocks and Backplates  2 X Alphacool D5 pumps  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Bitspower Dual pump Top  2 X Alphacool UT60 480 Radiators  1 X Alphacool XT45 240 Radiator  Phobya Balancer 250 Black Nickel  
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit Acer X34 Predator CORSAIR K90 VENGEANCE  CORSAIR AX1500i 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CORSAIR 900D Razer Deathadder black edition  Razer Goliathus XL ROG Xonar Phoebus 
Audio
Sennheiser PC363D  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
I7 980X @ 4.5Ghz - 1.36 Vcore ASUS RAMPAGE EXTREME III EVGA GTX TITAN EVGA GTX TITAN 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
12 GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR GT 2000MHZ TRIPLE CHANNEL OCZ VERTEX2 60GB and Samsung 2tb HDD LG BLURAY BURNER XSPC DUAL BAY LAING D5 PUMP RES COMBO 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
XSPC RAYSTORM COPPER CPU BLOCK BLACK ICE STEALTH 240 RAD WINDOWS 7 64BIT ULTIMATE ASUS VG278h 120Hz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CORSAIR K90 VENGEANCE  CORSAIR AX1200 CORSAIR GRAPHITE 600T WHITE RAZER DEATHADDER BLACK EDITION 
Mouse PadAudioOther
RAZER GOLIATHUS XL SENNHEISER PC360 G4ME ROG ASUS XONAR PHOEBUS 
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post #30 of 30
I also have had all of the mentioned mice, here's a few points I'd like to mention:

Ikari (the optical one): the coating is really just a sticker, atleast on the sides, mine started to peel off pretty soon. Otherwise, pretty good shape, good side buttons and a nice scroll feel.

Deathadder: Not the best shape for me, the coating was great on the sides though. Scroll wheel wasn't the best of the bunch. Probably the best sensor.

MS 3.0: like said earlier in this topic, this one has the worst quality of them all.
Flimsy side buttons, flimsy mouse1/2 (won't register if you press the button too far away from the center).

G400: pretty much the perfect shape, atleast for me. Though there is one major flaw to the mouse. They changed the material they used for the sides of the MX518. Atleast I can't get a good grip of the mouse, so I really have to grip it like I mean it, which makes my hands hurt after a while. Better scroll wheel than the MX518, better overall feel, minus the coating.
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Izvire
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