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Pump buzzing and vibrating. Help? Updated with Pictures! - Page 2

post #11 of 37
Thread Starter 
^ Im using an EK top if that counts for anything. Also I've run it before with the EK top and it was fine even at 5 it just recently did the buzzing sound.

I'm now thinking of having it repaired by a water pump repair guy. All pumps more or less have the same innards/workings right?
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post #12 of 37
Sounds like some tiny air bubbles, they will make it buzz until they are gone. The impeller doesn't need any lubrication, there is a ceramic ball and a ceramic socket. If more time and fooling around trying to get the air out doesn't solve it, check the impeller for little bits of injection molding flash or some other debris, these can stick out of the impeller and whack the EK top at the cutwater feature.
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post #13 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by llama16;14663735 
lubricate the shaft.

No troll, do it.Try and take of the housing and lubricate whatever can be lubricated.
If you're sure there aren't any bubbles.

Do you even know what your talking about..? headscratch.gif ... there is NO shaft! These pumps have a ceramic ball that the impeller is balanced on.. if your hearing buzzing or skipping inside the pump, you likely have something stuck to the impeller wheel making it off balance.

Once you pull the pump apart, just grab the impeller and pull it out.. it is not attached, it simply 'floats' inside, held by magnetic force.

**ABSOLUTELY DO NOT LUB ANY PART OF THE INTERNALS TO THE PUMP.. EVER.
post #14 of 37
ah I see...

Well then I suggest if all else fails, pull the loop apart and just get a bucket of water, put the tube in and out of the bucket and run it, if it does not buzz, then you know the problem is not your pump..

Also as personal expierience, I have 2x 655 running on a Koolance 452x2 with the drain pipe installed on the right res, it's only running thru 3x 580 blocks at the moment, nothing else.. As per reference, if I put it on 5, the pump does indeed make a high pitch grind noise, not sure if it is the same as your buzzing noise.. After some investigation, the loop is so simple right now, that the 2x 655 is just so uber-ly godly, that it actually pulls air from the res and into the loop and warping them in speeds beyond light... It is just too super at 5, had to crank it down to 4 to let things settle...

on those 655's... I'm not worthy !! I'm not worthy !!

OK well it's just some humor there, but for your reference and it may help.. smile.gif
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post #15 of 37
Thread Starter 
@DetroitAC and CL3P20

Thanks for the suggestions guys! that makes a lot of sense. will disassemble the pump and check for debris and clean as needed. Thanks also for the heads up regarding the lube +1

Also do I need to do anything special to get the impeller out? or is it just a simple pull?
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post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by jello900;14673941 
@DetroitAC and CL3P20

Thanks for the suggestions guys! that makes a lot of sense. will disassemble the pump and check for debris and clean as needed. Thanks also for the heads up regarding the lube +1

Also do I need to do anything special to get the impeller out? or is it just a simple pull?

simple pull, it's the magnet thats creating the force.. no force required, just gently tug...
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post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank anderson;14673967 
simple pull, it's the magnet thats creating the force.. no force required, just gently tug...

teaching.gif .. wink.gif
post #18 of 37
You will likely find nothing in the pump or around the impeller.

Turning the pump speed down a notch shows the pump has exited a cavitation problem. Returning the pump back to the higher speed only brings the cavitation back.

If something was in the pump, you would notice it at all speeds.

The Laing pumps are a Maglev type.

If the pump was ever run dry or the cavitation became so bad that a squealing sound starts; disassembly the pump, dry things out inside, put 1-2 drops of 3in1 oil on the white ceramic ball, place the impeller back on and by hand rotate the impeller back and forth. This will allow the plastic in the impeller to become lubricated again. 3in1 oil is compatiable with our loops of copper, steel, and plastic.

Do not use "grease" type lubricatants in the pump. It will make a mess of the loop and sludge things up.


Sounds like cavitation happening with the pump. That is, the loop is too restrictive for the pump to properly draw enough fluid and vapor bubbles actually form. Having the pump run faster can cause cavitation if there isn't enough flow to supply the pump.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation

Figure%201.gif
Image above shows an impeller much like the MCP350/355 D4/D5 MCP655 pumps ...

Images below are like the Ehiem and other types.
Cavitation.gif
Suction Cavitation occurs when the pump suction is under a low pressure/high vacuum condition where the liquid turns into a vapor at the eye of the pump impeller. This vapor is carried over to the discharge side of the pump where it no longer sees vacuum and is compressed back into a liquid by the discharge pressure. This imploding action occurs violently and attacks the face of the impeller. An impeller that has been operating under a suction cavitation condition has large chunks of material removed from its face causing premature failure of the pump.

---

Cavitation1.gif
Discharge Cavitation occurs when the pump discharge is extremely high. It normally occurs in a pump that is running at less than 10% of its best efficiency point. The high discharge pressure causes the majority of the fluid to circulate inside the pump instead of being allowed to flow out the discharge. As the liquid flows around the impeller it must pass through the small clearance between the impeller and the pump cutwater at extremely high velocity. This velocity causes a vacuum to develop at the cutwater similar to what occurs in a venturi and turns the liquid into a vapor. A pump that has been operating under these conditions shows premature wear of the impeller vane tips and the pump cutwater. In addition due to the high pressure condition premature failure of the pump mechanical seal and bearings can be expected and under extreme conditions will break the impeller shaft.

Try to reroute the loop or remove the loop restrictions. Or just run the pump on 4. wink.gif
Edited by bmaverick - 8/23/11 at 11:14am
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post #19 of 37
Thread Starter 
okay im confused. 2 guys said no lube and 2 guys tell me yes lube. which is it?

btw i opened the pump as instructed and found just tiny black particles. by tiny i mean specs of black particles on the side of the white ceramic ball. Everything seemed fine i dont think there are signs of damage. But when i rotate the impeller its not a smooth movement its like there are small bumps when i rotate. is that normal? (Ok i think that was some magnetic resistance)

Also I have used very minimal tubing. tried to route it with the least and cleanest tubing route possible. When I drain it I blow compressed air on one side to help the fluid out and its quite effective so blockage is not really an issue.
Edited by jello900 - 8/25/11 at 5:44am
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post #20 of 37
Thread Starter 
Here are a few close up pics. Can anyone determine any significant damage? There is a small dent there but the part where the ceramic ball spins over is still in good shape. The lower outer wall just has a little dent/scuff. The ceramic ball has some black particles and thew top of the impeller is till looking good

48d1984d.jpg
b6a1d099.jpg
753f7f35.jpg
7b923768.jpg

Ideas? btw the pump is still preforming very well there is just a buzzing sound when I put it on speed 5 but on 4 there is none
Edited by jello900 - 8/25/11 at 6:21am
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