Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Toms] Micro-Stuttering And GPU Scaling In CrossFire And SLI
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Toms] Micro-Stuttering And GPU Scaling In CrossFire And SLI - Page 17

post #161 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
The point of this article was the comparison (nVidia wins again, shock), not proving it exists. I'm baffled people can even think it doesn't at this point.
The article also goes on to say that the data collected from Fraps for Nvidia cards is incorrect because Nvidia has a frame meter mechanism. This basically means you cannot collect those small frame latencies like you can on AMD cards.

It could easily be the case that Nvidia cards are just as bad or even worse than AMD cards.
post #162 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeras View Post
It's 2011 folks. Why are people trying to talk like microstutter is still a mystery? We know what it is and why it happens, and anybody who has owned multi-GPU setups can notice it if they're looking. People like myself notice it even when trying to ignore it... and that's the reason I'll never SLI ever again.

The point of this article was the comparison (nVidia wins again, shock), not proving it exists. I'm baffled people can even think it doesn't at this point.
What? It was about micro-stutter and scaling, not which side has the fastest cards... That is just a typical fanboy response :/
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500k @ 4300Mhz Biostar TP67XE Waiting to buy a new one 8GB 1600Mhz 7-8-7-21 1T 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 SSD [250GB] Antec H20 620 Windows 7 x64 Acer S242HL 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 775W NZXT Phantom [White] 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500k @ 4300Mhz Biostar TP67XE Waiting to buy a new one 8GB 1600Mhz 7-8-7-21 1T 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 840 SSD [250GB] Antec H20 620 Windows 7 x64 Acer S242HL 
PowerCase
Thermaltake 775W NZXT Phantom [White] 
  hide details  
Reply
post #163 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
I hate the effects of microstuttering and I'm seriously considering to only go single-gpu from now on, but multi-gpus are very useful (aside from any perceived microstuttering). Why not gain 50-90% improvement in speed considering that the next gen. card is usually much more pricey and usually yields 15-25% in speed improvements?
That's a good point. Then again, to counter that, you could well say that dual-card setup support ends a lot sooner than single GPU support, so you're at a disadvantage that renders your future-proofing ability on dual GPU setups worthless. Also when you're upgrading, you're not throwing away or re-selling twice the number of cards and the amount of money spent is not as big as with one card.

If SLI/Crossfire cards had the ability to use each card's shaders/memory separately, I would agree that it's worthwhile; however, the way this technology is now, it's not worth going for multi-GPU setups. Most games are still better off without an extra card due to microstuttering, and that's what very few reviews explain when they show their performance bar charts with average framerates.

Also the pricey GPU argument almost never holds up over time. For example: GTX 285 was around $400 back when it was released and king of the hill as far as performance went; now, it's a mid-range GPU that costs around a third of that (GTX 460 is a direct replacement for the GTX 285 pretty much). If price is an issue for you, wait till it drops to acceptable levels for you. Also to avoid wasting GPUs, I recommend buying low-power consumption graphics cards first, because you will be able to re-use them in HTPC/home server builds (it's what I'll be doing with my GTX 460), and the card will easily pay for itself over time, unlike these once-upon-a-time top of the range GPUs that eat PSUs for breakfast. Sticking to single mid-range GPUs is usually the best and the safest option.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
Reply
post #164 of 177
As a CFX user, I own two different generations (HD4890XXX and HD5870XXX), I was plagued by problems. I hope review sites modify their tests methods to include extensive observations on these drawbacks. Until someone points them out, NVIDIA or AMD ignore them. Remember the article in TOMS about super poor performance in windows when using a 5870? AMD reacted when they were asked by toms what is going on.
 
QUEEN OF BLADES
(15 items)
 
ASUS U6Sg
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 920 REV D0@4.2 HT Asus Rampage II Extreme CFX: ASUS R9 270X DCUII 6GB DDR3 XMP CL6 TRIDENT 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Vertex 2 180 GB+RAID 0 2 * 1 TB SAMSUNG Sony Optiarc Labelflash Thermalright Venoumous X W7 X64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 IPS Logitech Corsair CMPSU-850TX Antec 1200 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech HAMA Xonar STX / Auzen Forte 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
XEON 5650X @4.45 GHz  Rampage III Formula PCGH CFX: ASUS R9 280X DCUII 16GB G-SKILL CL9@ 1643 MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x 850 Pro 256 GB + 1xWD 500 GB + 2x3TB WD RED Plextor PX-L89OSA Thermalright VX W10 X64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ACER B203W Razer Deathstalker Corsair CMPSU-750TX Antec 902 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G800S Logitech Gaming  Creative Titanium HD + FiiO E17 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo : T8300 Asus U6000Sg Series Notebook NVIDIA 9300 GS 4GB Kingston CL4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Hitachi Ultrastar Asus POS Stock Asus with MX3 W7 x64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorAudio
Asus 12.1 " LED Creative X-Fi EX54 
  hide details  
Reply
 
QUEEN OF BLADES
(15 items)
 
ASUS U6Sg
(15 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 920 REV D0@4.2 HT Asus Rampage II Extreme CFX: ASUS R9 270X DCUII 6GB DDR3 XMP CL6 TRIDENT 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Vertex 2 180 GB+RAID 0 2 * 1 TB SAMSUNG Sony Optiarc Labelflash Thermalright Venoumous X W7 X64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410 IPS Logitech Corsair CMPSU-850TX Antec 1200 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech HAMA Xonar STX / Auzen Forte 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
XEON 5650X @4.45 GHz  Rampage III Formula PCGH CFX: ASUS R9 280X DCUII 16GB G-SKILL CL9@ 1643 MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
1x 850 Pro 256 GB + 1xWD 500 GB + 2x3TB WD RED Plextor PX-L89OSA Thermalright VX W10 X64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ACER B203W Razer Deathstalker Corsair CMPSU-750TX Antec 902 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G800S Logitech Gaming  Creative Titanium HD + FiiO E17 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo : T8300 Asus U6000Sg Series Notebook NVIDIA 9300 GS 4GB Kingston CL4 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Hitachi Ultrastar Asus POS Stock Asus with MX3 W7 x64 Ultimate RETAIL 
MonitorAudio
Asus 12.1 " LED Creative X-Fi EX54 
  hide details  
Reply
post #165 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by catharsis View Post
I think there is bias in the game they chose, henced I want to see atleast 3 - 4 games tested. I don't call that being critical, I call that being curious for real results. We know certains games can skew results . In one game a Nvidia card might run better, but on average it might run worse in most games.
The article was not intended to be an nvidia vs ati piece so that cuts out half of your points. The article was meant to explain the phenomenon of micro stutter and thus a game that had very observable examples of it was chosen and used. So now your entire argument is invalidated. If you had read the article...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
No. Because there are hundreds if not thousands of "GTX 460 stuttering" threads among others, and I happened to be one of the people who posted/reported the problems; go google it yourself before you jump to any guess-work conclusions. It has nothing to do with the CPU when the drivers for the card have been getting worse with every update after 260.99...Worse than that, the card itself had DPC latency issues and conflicts with some socket 775 motherboards; you can go and google this too if you want, like I said, the issues are with the card/drivers and nothing else.
Then it sounds like you have a crappy graphics card. Why are your ranting on this obscure GTX460 performance topic? It's a cheap ass graphics card. Get over it. Seriously what are you trying to prove about micro stutter I don't even...
Retail Edge Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k 4.2 Ghz GIGABYTE GA-P67X-UD3-B3 SLI MSI 560 4GB (2x2) G Skill 1600 1.5v cas 8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB WD RE4 ASUS DRW-24B1ST Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 26" + LG 23" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Saitek Cyborg Seasonic X-series 650W Gold CM HAF 922 Steelseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
X Trac pads pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Retail Edge Build
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k 4.2 Ghz GIGABYTE GA-P67X-UD3-B3 SLI MSI 560 4GB (2x2) G Skill 1600 1.5v cas 8 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
500GB WD RE4 ASUS DRW-24B1ST Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 26" + LG 23" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Saitek Cyborg Seasonic X-series 650W Gold CM HAF 922 Steelseries Xai 
Mouse Pad
X Trac pads pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #166 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
As a CFX user, I own two different generations (HD4890XXX and HD5870XXX), I was plagued by problems. I hope review sites modify their tests methods to include extensive observations on these drawbacks. Until someone points them out, NVIDIA or AMD ignore them. Remember the article in TOMS about super poor performance in windows when using a 5870? AMD reacted when they were asked by toms what is going on.
I used 2 x HD4870 1GBs and now HD 6970s. No problems what so ever.
Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AVEXIR Blitz 1.1 16GB DDR3-2400MHz  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AVEXIR Blitz 1.1 16GB DDR3-2400MHz  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
post #167 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by civilian_pr0ject View Post
The article was not intended to be an nvidia vs ati piece so that cuts out half of your points. The article was meant to explain the phenomenon of micro stutter and thus a game that had very observable examples of it was chosen and used. So now your entire argument is invalidated. If you had read the article...
Hm perhaps you fail at reading comprehension. The nvidia thing was merely an example of how performance doesn't scale linearly across all games. Different games will yield different results. Thus my point is still crystal clear, I would like to see how bad microstutter is in multiple games to truly determine if its just a game by game phenomenon or an issue with all games. So if it only occurs in certain games, the game developers could probably be more at fault than amd or nvidia.
Code Red
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k AsRock z68 Professional Gen 3 Sapphire HD 6950 dirt3 x2 Mushkin ddr3 1866 8 gigs 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Mushkin Chronos 120gb, Seagate 1tb ASUS DVD RW Windows 7 Ultimate Asus VG236HE 120hertz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Tenkeyless with cherry browns Corsair AX 850watt Antec DF-85 Zowie Ec2 gloss white finish 
Mouse Pad
Fnatic qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
Code Red
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k AsRock z68 Professional Gen 3 Sapphire HD 6950 dirt3 x2 Mushkin ddr3 1866 8 gigs 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Mushkin Chronos 120gb, Seagate 1tb ASUS DVD RW Windows 7 Ultimate Asus VG236HE 120hertz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Tenkeyless with cherry browns Corsair AX 850watt Antec DF-85 Zowie Ec2 gloss white finish 
Mouse Pad
Fnatic qck+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #168 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by civilian_pr0ject View Post
The article was not intended to be an nvidia vs ati piece so that cuts out half of your points. The article was meant to explain the phenomenon of micro stutter and thus a game that had very observable examples of it was chosen and used. So now your entire argument is invalidated. If you had read the article...



Then it sounds like you have a crappy graphics card. Why are your ranting on this obscure GTX460 performance topic? It's a cheap ass graphics card. Get over it. Seriously what are you trying to prove about micro stutter I don't even...


Are you completely braindead? What does the price have even remotely to do with ANYTHING I mentioned? And you have almost the same cheap ass graphics card, except with a few more shaders and memory; please, get over yourself...
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
Reply
post #169 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post
Although I've not read the article yet, I bet that if y'all go back and read my recent musings about microstutter on these boards, you'll find that this article confirms much of what I've been telling people:

1) Microstutter is worse on AMD, because they've abandoned trying to evenly time the frames. You see, evenly-timed frames hurts the almighty FPS scaling. This happens because to do so, you must make one card WAIT for the other card occasionally. Waiting = lower fps and hence lower scaling. nVidia otoh has not done this, except maybe for some benchmarking apps.
I have no idea how you came up with this conclusion because the article clearly shows that AMD Tri-Fire had the least microstutter of all the multi-GPU setups they tested. Granted, the article doesn't compare AMD Tri-Fire to Nvidia Tri-SLI, but one cannot assume that Nvidia Tri-SLI would have less microstutter than the AMD Tri-Fire setup. For all we know, Nvidia Tri-SLI may have more microstutter than AMD Tri-Fire. However, there is no really no way to know without testing it.
Edited by Viper2 - 9/15/11 at 3:57pm
post #170 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
The article also goes on to say that the data collected from Fraps for Nvidia cards is incorrect because Nvidia has a frame meter mechanism. This basically means you cannot collect those small frame latencies like you can on AMD cards.

It could easily be the case that Nvidia cards are just as bad or even worse than AMD cards.
lol, indeed.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Toms] Micro-Stuttering And GPU Scaling In CrossFire And SLI