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[BBC] - US military develops 'bigger bang' explosive material - Page 4

post #31 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Because if you can get the warhead inside something before it detonates, thermobarics are great.

The problem with smaller thermobaric devices is that they can't be made with the mass or cross section to penetrate heavy armor/hardened targets while still retaining enough internal volume to do what they need to do. This isn't an issue with a large bomb that has vastly more volume relative to it's crossection.

This new stuff is supposed to be as dense as steel, so hypothetically the whole round could be made of it (except maybe a jacket and tip), retain decent penetration, and have a much greater mass of explosive delivered to the target at the same time.

Then again, if Vagrant Storm's experience really was with this stuff, and not something else, it may have penetration issues of it's own. Steel is dense, but it's not as good as lead, tungsten, or depleted uranium.
That was exactly the problem. If fired at a hard target it would just explode against it and if it was hard enough to stop the little bit of explosion and tiny bit of shrapnel there would be pretty much no damage done. It could detrack a BMP pretty good, but if the BMP could still shoot back I would have to starve the crew to death or call in heavier support.

However...on a soft target, like a car or truck, I could have just as well fired a ball of anti-matter at it. It would just be...gone. Well actually spread all over a 20 meter radius of its original location. Which sounds nice, but the regular rounds would rip the same target to pieces in a few shots or a single gernade round would acomplish the same, but leave a little bit of wreckage in the original location.

The same held true for buildings...a brick building would just take the blast, but a couple magazines of standards could make the same building fall down from all the holes in it.

Though this was just 25 mike-mike rounds here...and not missles. However, the article mentions the researcher talking about working this into rifle ammo. The properties of this stuff sounds like my HE rounds for my former weapon of issue. I miss that rifle sometimes...espcially in heavy traffic.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 8/22/11 at 11:16am
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post #32 of 41
I've read several times that the growing vulnerability of ships from non third-world would make a lot of the Navy obsolete, but they have some of the most amazing large-scale tech in development.
These explosive rounds combined with the ship-ship/ship-missile defenses of lasers/railguns would once again make carriers and naval battlegroups an extraordinary form of power projection and support of ground forces. Ground forces could be scaled back to hold ground and care for/control the civilian population. -> IMO (nonprofessional)

Why do you think this program has progressed when development of the laser/railgun "futureweapons" is at risk? Scale/cost of the operations?
Maybe it's because the USN doesn't foresee being challenged outright and is focusing on their more current roles of artillery support. Just a thought.
Edited by Nytehawk - 8/22/11 at 11:33am
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post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Because if you can get the warhead inside something before it detonates, thermobarics are great.

The problem with smaller thermobaric devices is that they can't be made with the mass or cross section to penetrate heavy armor/hardened targets while still retaining enough internal volume to do what they need to do. This isn't an issue with a large bomb that has vastly more volume relative to it's crossection.

This new stuff is supposed to be as dense as steel, so hypothetically the whole round could be made of it (except maybe a jacket and tip), retain decent penetration, and have a much greater mass of explosive delivered to the target at the same time.

Then again, if Vagrant Storm's experience really was with this stuff, and not something else, it may have penetration issues of it's own. Steel is dense, but it's not as good as lead, tungsten, or depleted uranium.
It is as dense as steel, but only as strong as aluminum. I doubt it gets much penetration through armor without a decent-sized jacket.
post #34 of 41
Not to derail thread, but thermobarics. Would these be similar to the kenetic rounds the Abrahms used in Gulf Storm? The basic principle was the kenetic energy turning to heat energy upon impact with tank armor. I believe it was a sabot round, copper jacket, and tungsten/dep. uranium core. Basically filled the enemy tank with shards of hot metal flying around, essentially turning the inside into a blender.
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post #35 of 41
inb4 espionage steals it.
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post #36 of 41
War- its only cool on the PC now.
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post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
Not to derail thread, but thermobarics. Would these be similar to the kenetic rounds the Abrahms used in Gulf Storm? The basic principle was the kenetic energy turning to heat energy upon impact with tank armor. I believe it was a sabot round, copper jacket, and tungsten/dep. uranium core. Basically filled the enemy tank with shards of hot metal flying around, essentially turning the inside into a blender.
Yeah, the sobot core wieghs about 20 pounds, but can rip off a 30 ton turret and send it flying through the air for a decent ways. The muzzle velocity of the sabot round is almost 6000 feet per second if I remember right. An this is 1970's tech (possibly even designed in the late 60's...went into production in the 80's). Modern military tech flat out scares me. There are people out there lobbying right now to make it legal to own some of it in the civilian world.

The kenetic energy hitting the armor of the target turns the targets armor into plasma. This hot just of plasma will jet across the other side and likely punch a hole going out. the vacume effect will suck anything that isn't bolted down out the hole. If you aren't weak of stomach you could try to find the viedo of the APC filled with sheep. Knowing the Internet...I am sure it is out there somewhere.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 8/22/11 at 12:27pm
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post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joephis19 View Post
Not to derail thread, but thermobarics. Would these be similar to the kenetic rounds the Abrahms used in Gulf Storm? The basic principle was the kenetic energy turning to heat energy upon impact with tank armor. I believe it was a sabot round, copper jacket, and tungsten/dep. uranium core. Basically filled the enemy tank with shards of hot metal flying around, essentially turning the inside into a blender.
Quote:
The kenetic energy hitting the armor of the target turns the targets armor into plasma. This hot just of plasma will jet across the other side and likely punch a hole going out. the vacume effect will suck anything that isn't bolted down out the hole. If you aren't weak of stomach you could try to find the viedo of the APC filled with sheep. Knowing the Internet...I am sure it is out there somewhere.
No not quite.

Thermobaric would be fuel air bombs and the like. You are thinking of APFSDS (AP Fin Stabalized Discarding Sabot), basically an extremely high velocity dart made of super dense depleted uranium. The dart has so much energy and such a small surface area that it lances through the armor. The super heated shards as well as broken tank armor is then knocked around in the tank plus the penetrating dart. The alternate AP round is HEAT; which is used by just about all direct attack anti-tank missiles and tank shells. The explosives are in a cone, and when it hits armor they form a jet of molten metal to cut through the steel.

This material is for high-explosives, which a dart contains none. This is more for bombs, and it might work for EFP (explosively formed penetrator's), or "HEAT" rounds.
Edited by trueg50 - 8/22/11 at 12:39pm
    
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post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueg50 View Post
No not at all.

Thermobaric would be fuel air bombs and the like. You are thinking of APFSDS (AP Fin Stabalized Discarding Sabot), basically an extremely high velocity dart made of super dense depleted uranium.

This material is for high-explosives, which a dart contains none. This is more for bombs, and it might work for EFP (explosively formed penetrator), or "HEAT" rounds that detonate in a cone shape, shooting molten metal though armor.
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post #40 of 41
More damage to target with less collateral damage. I like it!! Too bad it costs so much to try and be the good guys in today's world.

Terrorism is so much cheaper.
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