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Gtx 570 vs gtx 470 - Page 8

post #71 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by amstech;14688063 
This doesn't address anything I said. confused.gif
The overclock headroom is fantastic on a 570 and a new phase design GF-110 on water will rick roll any GF-100, so lets not start a GF-110 vs GF-100 war, we all know its a big advantage to the GF-110's.
The 470 is a great option for saving money but going water changes everything. devil.gif

You can't get a full cover block for non reference, at least last I checked.

So you'll be running a gpu only water block, how are you going to cool the vrms and memory?

You're still looking at $350 plus a block for non reference, the price difference is going to remain right around $150 or more.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 8/23/11 at 1:53pm
    
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post #72 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfgar;14686505 
Don't expect much OC from 470 ? I call 800-850MHz OC on AIR from 600 stock a pretty massive OC.

and i call B.S/Give me PROOF> You will never get 850 core clock from a 470 reference[on air] unless you're willing to go above the recommended safe-values and overvolt your card like it's nobody's business, and endure the unwanted heat, noise, and all that shamwow that the 470/480's are notorious for. If you're lucky, 800mhz is possible, but not necessarily guaranteed. The avg 470 reference(assuming you get a decent chip) will most likely top out at 750 core. You just can't go above that(whilst being stable) without water. You just can't

Quote:
PLus the difference between them is far from being 30%.

In stock clock form from both cards, yes, apparently it seems to be according to this link

http://www.hwcompare.com/9001/geforce-gtx-470-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

So let's assume you get a 470 and oc it to 570's stock core. Let's have both cards compete at 732 vs 732. That's approximately a 12% overclock on the 470. Guess what my friend? The 570 will still smoke it due to better constructed GF110 architecture, and much superior texel rate handling.
The second the 470 grasps to maintain the avg framerates when it loses power, the 570 will still be pulling ahead while maintaining raw power to keep everything running as it should and consistently.

Basically, I'm agreeing with everything amstech is saying. The 570 overclocked is the only thing comparable to stock 580. Even if the 470 has the better overclock on the 570, it's most likely going to best it, but in a very marginal aspect. It's a foolish idea to get the 470 now. Because even with the water block, it's still going to coast you similar to a 570 anyways, so why not just get something fresh and cooler that can decently overclock on air- on the spot, without worrying about hazardous circumstances and how to heat up the 470 to 9000 degrees in order win a couple benchmarks?

Even the reference EVGA 570's are hitting 900 core easily without sounding like a jet engine. I would never buy a 470 in its current state, unless it was on water and coasts around $250 new or if there was some instaluckycharm deal going on e-bay or something.
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post #73 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepoSniper;14690600 
and i call B.S/Give me PROOF> You will never get 850 core clock from a 470 reference[on air] unless you're willing to go above the recommended safe-values and overvolt your card like it's nobody's business, and endure the unwanted heat, noise, and all that shamwow that the 470/480's are notorious for. If you're lucky, 800mhz is possible, but not necessarily guaranteed. The avg 470 reference(assuming you get a decent chip) will most likely top out at 750 core. You just can't go above that(whilst being stable) without water. You just can't




In stock clock form from both cards, yes, apparently it seems to be according to this link

http://www.hwcompare.com/9001/geforce-gtx-470-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

So let's assume you get a 470 and oc it to 570's stock core. Let's have both cards compete at 732 vs 732. That's approximately a 12% overclock on the 470. Guess what my friend? The 570 will still smoke it due to better constructed GF110 architecture, and much superior texel rate handling.
The second the 470 grasps to maintain the avg framerates when it loses power, the 570 will still be pulling ahead while maintaining raw power to keep everything running as it should and consistently.

Basically, I'm agreeing with everything amstech is saying. The 570 overclocked is the only thing comparable to stock 580. Even if the 470 has the better overclock on the 570, it's most likely going to best it, but in a very marginal aspect. It's a foolish idea to get the 470 now. Because even with the water block, it's still going to coast you similar to a 570 anyways, so why not just get something fresh and cooler that can decently overclock on air- on the spot, without worrying about hazardous circumstances and how to heat up the 470 to 9000 degrees in order win a couple benchmarks?

Even the reference EVGA 570's are hitting 900 core easily without sounding like a jet engine. I would never buy a 470 in its current state, unless it was on water and coasts around $250 new or if there was some instaluckycharm deal going on e-bay or something.

Actually 800 - 850 is the place where air tops out usually, so thats fairly common.
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post #74 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepoSniper;14690600 
So let's assume you get a 470 and oc it to 570's stock core. Let's have both cards compete at 732 vs 732. That's approximately a 12% overclock on the 470. Guess what my friend? The 570 will still smoke it due to better constructed GF110 architecture, and much superior texel rate handling.
The 570 would still be faster, yes. But calling a 5-6% performance gap "smoking" is overstating things. That's not a difference you would ever notice in actual gameplay.
Quote:
Basically, I'm agreeing with everything amstech is saying. The 570 overclocked is the only thing comparable to stock 580. Even if the 470 has the better overclock on the 570, it's most likely going to best it, but in a very marginal aspect.
It's already been proven that a 470 around 900 core can be comparable to a stock 580.

http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/1085577-gtx470-915mhz-oc-versus-gtx580-stock-5.html#post14501076
Quote:
It's a foolish idea to get the 470 now. Because even with the water block, it's still going to coast you similar to a 570 anyways, so why not just get something fresh and cooler that can decently overclock on air- on the spot, without worrying about hazardous circumstances and how to heat up the 470 to 9000 degrees in order win a couple benchmarks?
This is a fair point, but OP stated he was going water regardless of which card he chose, so comparing the price of a water-cooled 470 to an air cooled 570 is irrelevant. He'll be getting a block in both cases.
post #75 of 116
The 570 is a better card, no question.

It's the price vs performance aspect of the 470 that nips it in the butt.

Also both my 470s ran 850 core on reference cooling, though it was cooler out (spring for one) and winter for the other. In the winter I was able to bench it on reference air at 900 core, under water it was doing 930 core.

Right now I typically load around 45C max in the summer (assuming my rad is cleaned of dust *doh* or a few C hotter if it's dirty) that's at 850 core or higher as well with a pretty beefy memory OC.


Edit: Just to be silly I put an offer in for a GTX 470 new in box on Ebay and they accepted my offer of $150.

Lulz. Tri?
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 8/23/11 at 8:12pm
    
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post #76 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepoSniper;14690600 
and i call B.S/Give me PROOF> You will never get 850 core clock from a 470 reference[on air] unless you're willing to go above the recommended safe-values and overvolt your card like it's nobody's business, and endure the unwanted heat, noise, and all that shamwow that the 470/480's are notorious for. If you're lucky, 800mhz is possible, but not necessarily guaranteed. The avg 470 reference(assuming you get a decent chip) will most likely top out at 750 core. You just can't go above that(whilst being stable) without water. You just can't.

In stock clock form from both cards, yes, apparently it seems to be according to this link

http://www.hwcompare.com/9001/geforce-gtx-470-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

So let's assume you get a 470 and oc it to 570's stock core. Let's have both cards compete at 732 vs 732. That's approximately a 12% overclock on the 470. Guess what my friend? The 570 will still smoke it due to better constructed GF110 architecture, and much superior texel rate handling.
The second the 470 grasps to maintain the avg framerates when it loses power, the 570 will still be pulling ahead while maintaining raw power to keep everything running as it should and consistently.

Even the reference EVGA 570's are hitting 900 core easily without sounding like a jet engine. I would never buy a 470 in its current state, unless it was on water and coasts around $250 new or if there was some instaluckycharm deal going on e-bay or something.

One question, do you actually own a 470 or are you just pulling BS out of your ass ?

Here's my 3D Mark 2011 score at 850MHz on air:

http://3dmark.com/3dm11/1714500;jsessionid=1doqhjwy5hemm?show_ads=true&page=%2F3dm11%2F1714500%3Fkey%3Dcz2NTZxm7qFu8q0SKfVhazrXStYyVB

Now if you're such on expert on the 470 and 570 show me a 570 that gets 5.8K GPU score (without a decent overclock) with all of its "much superior texel rate handling" which I'm pretty sure you don't even know what it means. In fact I don't even understand where you got that info (probably made up), the 570 just has more cuda cores (480 vs 448), thus the marginal difference in performance clock for clock. It's not faster at anything besides blowing up in your face once you crank up the voltages.

Speaking of noise, I'm sorry but I highly doubt a reference 570 can be considered quiet. In fact there's plenty of topics on the internet complaining about noise and heat, just an example:

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1022841&mpage=1

At 900MHz reference 470, 480, 580 or 570 will still sound like a jet engine because you need to crank up the voltage. Aftermarket cooling helps, I keep mine at 75% fan speed @ 850MHz and 65% @ 800MHz. I don't go into 900MHz territory because I don't need to, 50MHz won't make or break performance in a game.

As long as you have a case with decent airflow you shouldn't have any issues with heat and I don't understand where this BS comes from. The 480 was the card with the issues (eating 100 extra watts in full load thus generating more heat) not the 470.
Edited by Wulfgar - 8/23/11 at 9:16pm
post #77 of 116
Both my 470's do 825/1800 at max voltage (before the voltage unlock to 1.212V I think it is now smile.gif), and mine started life as 465's, so mine's not even supposed to be a 'good' 470.

Yes, they do get hot/loud at this voltage when running benchmarks, but since I like to game with v-sync, and they're so bloody fast at these clocks, I can totally game at these volts/clocks w/o them getting that hot or loud on 90% of games out there, and it's still totally tolerable even with the rare games like Metro ... of course, I've got excellent coolers on mine.

Anyways, the bottom line is this ... at the prices the OP is talking about, 470(s) make WAAAY more sense on the bang/buck level.

In my book, a clock-for-clock roughly 6% average + in perf does NOT warrant an extra $140 (or 60%) price premium. I don't care how much higher a 570 will OC than a 470, both cards at max OC's (whether on air OR water) you would be VERY hard pressed to SEE a difference in the performance of the two cards playing them side-by-side.

Oh, and here's a 3DMark11 score to gander at. The GPU score EASILY surpasses a pair of stock 570's ('superior texel rate handling' or no tongue.gif), and even at their max OC's on air, 570 SLI will not do anything like 'destroy' my score. On water, it'd be even closer.

225751d1314176776-gtx-570-vs-gtx-470-5_3dmark11_470sli_825_1800_275.33.jpg
Edited by brettjv - 8/24/11 at 2:12am
    
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post #78 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by liljoey112;14675848 
OK first I Will probably be running one big 40-60 inch HDTV The gtx 470 is alittle under 200 and the gtx 570 is 340 which should i get heat does not madder because i will be watercooling in a few months

I'm basically getting stock gtx580 performance from a gtx465 unlocked to a gtx470. You can get a pny gtx465 for $99 at newegg. Once you do that we can show you how to unlock it to a 470. Then you can OC it and get pretty close to gtx580 performance.

Going water only cost me $60. See my sig.
Edited by BigCactus - 8/24/11 at 2:19am
    
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post #79 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfgar;14692798 

As long as you have a case with decent airflow you shouldn't have any issues with heat and I don't understand where this BS comes from. The 480 was the card with the issues (eating 100 extra watts in full load thus generating more heat) not the 470.

The GTX 480 is a great card IMO. I don't know why you say it suck. I notice this in all your post mate tongue.gif . their prices are just right now if you search well, you can find great deals on them. And IMHO all 1st gen Fermi's based on GF100 are power hungry cards not only the GTX 480. All of them draw too much power when we take performance vs. watts into consideration.
It can be find for $250 and be easily overclocked to GTX 580 speeds or surpass it.
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post #80 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDepoSniper;14690600 
and i call B.S/Give me PROOF> You will never get 850 core clock from a 470 reference[on air] unless you're willing to go above the recommended safe-values and overvolt your card like it's nobody's business, and endure the unwanted heat, noise, and all that shamwow that the 470/480's are notorious for. If you're lucky, 800mhz is possible, but not necessarily guaranteed. The avg 470 reference(assuming you get a decent chip) will most likely top out at 750 core. You just can't go above that(whilst being stable) without water. You just can't




In stock clock form from both cards, yes, apparently it seems to be according to this link

http://www.hwcompare.com/9001/geforce-gtx-470-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

So let's assume you get a 470 and oc it to 570's stock core. Let's have both cards compete at 732 vs 732. That's approximately a 12% overclock on the 470. Guess what my friend? The 570 will still smoke it due to better constructed GF110 architecture, and much superior texel rate handling.
The second the 470 grasps to maintain the avg framerates when it loses power, the 570 will still be pulling ahead while maintaining raw power to keep everything running as it should and consistently.

Basically, I'm agreeing with everything amstech is saying. The 570 overclocked is the only thing comparable to stock 580.
Even if the 470 has the better overclock on the 570, it's most likely going to best it, but in a very marginal aspect. It's a foolish idea to get the 470 now. Because even with the water block, it's still going to coast you similar to a 570 anyways, so why not just get something fresh and cooler that can decently overclock on air- on the spot, without worrying about hazardous circumstances and how to heat up the 470 to 9000 degrees in order win a couple benchmarks?

Even the reference EVGA 570's are hitting 900 core easily without sounding like a jet engine. I would never buy a 470 in its current state, unless it was on water and coasts around $250 new or if there was some instaluckycharm deal going on e-bay or something.







Your statements do not hold merit.

1)

Say hello to my 830MHz GTX 470s SLI reference air cooled (far from max voltage):

intel_inside_with_a_flash.jpg

GTX_470_SLI_803_3dm11.JPG





2)

Difference between a GTX 470 and GTX 570: 1 Streaming Multiprocessor.

Difference between a GTX 470 and GTX 480: 1 Streaming Multiprocessor, 256MB of VRAM, 8 ROPs connected to a 64-bit bus.
Difference between a GTX 570 and GTX 480: 256MB of VRAM and 8 ROPs connected to a 64-bit bus.

Difference between a GTX 570 and GTX 580: 1 Streaming Multiprocessor, 256MB of VRAM, 8 ROPs connected to a 64-bit bus.
Difference between a GTX 480 and GTX 580: 1 Streaming Multiprocessor.

c53f2396d00752c26ed1b95d75e02659.pngClock for clock: GTX 580 > GTX 480 > GTX 570 > GTX 470

If a card can match a GTX 580 by OC, it is the GTX 480. If a GTX 570 can match a GTX 580 by OC, a GTX 470 can certainly match a GTX 570 by OC. Not even taking into account the VRMs on the GTX 570.
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