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[MP1st] BF3 No One Hit Body Kills with Snipers, More Weapon Recoil, and More - Page 25

post #241 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Slightly leaning towards some aspect of realism, yeah, because that area is a killzone. If headshots are 1 hit kills, that's because of realism, same for an upper body hit. Those are killzones. If HS's didn't kill instantly there would be uproar.

A sniper shot to the body should instantly drop the HP to 50% or something because sniper rifles are extremely powerful and penetrate more than an assault rifle. The fact that SR's are more powerful should absolutely be put forward and portrayed into the game.

It's not exactly 100% through and through realism, just common sense.

Also, no, there is no reason to nerf sniper rifles at all. None. The glare is enough (and too much, that should just be something natural. It's great that it's directional, but it should also be proportionate to the position of the sun) bulletdrop is enough and an absolutely positive balance to the game. It makes it harder to use the sniper rifles but in a way that makes total sense, unlike forcing people to lie down to use the scope because a lot of people have an unhealthy hate for Recon's.

Also, while we're talking about how realism shouldn't be in games, I showed my GF the Caspian Jet footage and she said "that's scary, how realistic does that look?" So, we want a realistic looking game, but realistic, to an extent, gameplay is a no-no?
Well, the thing is that SR's are, as you say, more powerful than other weapons, so what we need is a way to balance that. I don't know how the glare thing will look, looking forward to that a lot, but what are the downsides to SR's in BC2? They have a low fire rate, slow reload and bad hip fire accuracy (there are more, but these are the most significant, I think). Now, if a sniper recon ADS and fires for a 1HK, all those downsides are negated, 'cause he no longer has an enemy. He can do that at pretty much any range. Shotgun? Only CQC (I just remembered slugs, but will they feature in BF3?). AR, SMG, or LMG? Need more than 1 bullet to kill. Assuming that no shots are missed, a sniper rifle will kill faster in all situations except at shotgun range. The downsides don't outweigh the advantages to make a balanced weapon. Also remember that bullet drop is on all weapons. It's not a sniper downside, it's a game mechanic. From what I understand, BF3 will have less bullet drop on SR's than other weapons (because of high muzzle velocities), so it's not a downside or a nerf that makes sense.

To the last part: Yes. Example: Crysis. Does it look realistic (by current standards)? Is it realistic? Does it work? The answers are yes, no, yes. We can easily have a game that looks realistic but isn't. But it's actually more important to not have realism in BF3. Why? It's a competitive game. Crysis is pretty much just fun. The online didn't take off and it wasn't aimed at that. It was more a tech demo. Now, BF3 is a different thing. It's almost entirely based around competitive online gaming. What's important in competitive gaming? Good gameplay. Weapons that are balanced. So weapon balance is over realism for a game like BF3. Which is, for example, the reason why jets are really slow compared to RL.

Also, SR's do take 50% HP from a normal body shot in BC2. More with magnum ammo. At their weakest they do 3 times as much damage as a normal AR.
Edited by B!0HaZard - 8/23/11 at 9:38am
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post #242 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by B!0HaZard View Post
Well, the thing is that SR's are, as you say, more powerful than other weapons, so what we need is a way to balance that. I don't know how the glare thing will look, looking forward to that a lot, but what are the downsides to SR's in BC2? They have a low fire rate, slow reload and bad hip fire accuracy (there are more, but these are the most significant, I think).
All those are realistic limitations of Sniper Rifles, though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by B!0HaZard View Post
Now, if a sniper recon ADS and fires for a 1HK, all those downsides are negated, 'cause he no longer has an enemy. He can do that at pretty much any range. Shotgun? Only CQC (I just remembered slugs, but will they feature in BF3?). AR, SMG, or LMG? Need more than 1 bullet to kill. Assuming that no shots are missed, a sniper rifle will kill faster in all situations except at shotgun range. The downsides don't outweigh the advantages to make a balanced weapon. Also remember that bullet drop is on all weapons. It's not a sniper downside, it's a game mechanic. From what I understand, BF3 will have less bullet drop on SR's than other weapons (because of high muzzle velocities), so it's not a downside or a nerf that makes sense.
AFAIK the slugs are coming back into BF3 ()

and an LMG can kill in 2-3 shots to the chest with Magnum Ammo on

Personally, there should have been more bullet drop on SR's even if it's not that realisitic because it was a neat feature and it then took a different amount of skill to pull off HS's with them (compared to games like COD... Which I now find the lack of a bulletdrop, or decent recoil, disturbing!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by B!0HaZard View Post
To the last part: Yes. Example: Crysis. Does it look realistic (by current standards)? Is it realistic? Does it work? The answers are yes, no, yes. We can easily have a game that looks realistic but isn't. But it's actually more important to not have realism in BF3. Why? It's a competitive game. Crysis is pretty much just fun. The online didn't take off and it wasn't aimed at that. It was more a tech demo. Now, BF3 is a different thing. It's almost entirely based around competitive online gaming. What's important in competitive gaming? Good gameplay. Weapons that are balanced. So weapon balance is over realism for a game like BF3. Which is, for example, the reason why jets are really slow compared to RL.

Also, SR's do take 50% HP from a normal body shot in BC2. More with magnum ammo. At their weakest they do 3 times as much damage as a normal AR.
But is Crysis a realistic game? No, not really. You're a supersoldier in a super suit fighting North Korean soldiers and then Aliens (like NK have the money to stage any of what went on in Crysis, LOL).

Battlefield has realistic soldiers, realistic guns, realistic vehicles and all the rest. It's realism through and through. I'd totally disagree on the competitive online gameplay aspect. That's more of a consequence and what players have made it (organising Tournaments and such). EDIT: In fact the last time a developer made a game for "competitive play" we were given MW2...

The only reason they slowed Jets down is because it would be totally impossible to fly them on the maps. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it was for balance, it was to ensure they were actually usable. If they were realistic in speed they'd cross the map in seconds!

Point is and you can't deny, BF3 is aimed at being a realistic Battlefield experience, that, as its very nature of being a videogame, does require balancing and adjustments to make sure it's playable. However, having 1HK on the body with a Sniper Rifle wouldn't be such a deal breaker, but really, neither is it not being included either. I still want to see SR's doing a decent amount of damage when they hit someone from any range because that's what SR's do. I would be happy to see SR's do what SR's do. At the end of the day I reckon people are just bothered that they might see many more snipers in the game if it was 1HK for a body shot (as in a shot ANYWHERE on the body) which is true and I'd have the same reservations. But all the same I'd still rather there be a major amount of damage dealt for a SR shot to the body, increasing as we go further up the body to the point that a neck shot is also 1HK.

Also, making people lie down or crouch to use the scope would be a total deal breaker for me. There's just no reason to include or force that. In the same sense, I'd say you should be forced to stop moving in order to use an iron sights on any other gun. Or some other silly stuff like that.
    
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post #243 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by being that guy View Post
and you are fine with people getting hit 1 foot away by shotgun blast to the chest and surviving? How about assault rifles with .308 caliber rounds?

All the guns require multiple hits to the body. In some case 5 or more. The game in normal mode is not representative of the real world. Why is it always the snipers that get ticked about this stuff?

Normal mode is not a war simulator. If sniper rifles got a one shot body kill while all the other weapons required 4 to 7, it would be sniper fest 2011. No one wants that.

Play hardcore mode. You guys can camp and one shot kill to your hearts content.
I'm definitely not fine with that either. I do play hardcore mode.
post #244 of 433
If snipers can't kill in one shot, doesn't that defeat their point? The hit boxes should be tuned for one hit zones with certain guns, etc imo.
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post #245 of 433
I think everyone is forgetting there are no .50 cal sniper rifles in BF3.
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post #246 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post
If snipers can't kill in one shot, doesn't that defeat their point? The hit boxes should be tuned for one hit zones with certain guns, etc imo.
Not if you play to win and go for the head with every shot
    
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post #247 of 433
Heloooo skill.
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post #248 of 433
To me the bottom line is that I get killed way more often by a 40mm and Carl Gustav than any sniper rifle. Am I crying for a "get rid of grenade launchers/turn them into candy launchers" or "rocket launcher can only shoots at vehicle"? Yeah once in a while I'll yell "noob" but I don't want to take away the freedom & enjoyment people have of playing the game the way they want. Just like most of you, if I step in a sniper only server I get the hell out so again to me the best way to balance the game is to put caps on each classes. Just like how you don't need a whole team of medics spraying the map with their 200rds drum barrels.
Actually the change I want to see is if you get revived by a medic then it doesn't count as a death because there's nothing I hate more than being revived by a points hungry medic reviving me in the line of fire back and forth and my death count goes up until he finally lets me die.
And really you all gotta stop telling snipers to get skill and only do headshots, it's much harder to do and I'm sorry to break it to you but if you require snipers to do headshots then get ready for some more MASSIVE camping because knowing that if they hit you anywhere else than your head they'll get killed in return, they'll make sure they keep that long distance you all seem to hate to make sure you can't get them back. Knowing that my sniper rifle is one shot kill actually brings me much closer to the frontline giving you trigger happy dummies (no offense but you get my point) the opportunity to see me and kill me.

Quote:
I think everyone is forgetting there are no .50 cal sniper rifles in BF3.
What's an M82A3?
Edited by Emmanuel - 8/23/11 at 10:17am
    
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post #249 of 433
I say keep the one shot kill ... BUT make the shot placement semi-random. If you shoot from the hip or have not completed scoping, your shot will not be in the dead center of the screen. The round will be random somewhere near the middle but not at the middle. This makes one-shots possible but much harder/random.

This is how BF2142 treated an unscoped bolt-action.
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post #250 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
All those are realistic limitations of Sniper Rifles, though...

Also, making people lie down or crouch to use the scope would be a total deal breaker for me. There's just no reason to include or force that. In the same sense, I'd say you should be forced to stop moving in order to use an iron sights on any other gun. Or some other silly stuff like that.
And needing to crouch isn't a realistic limitation? All RL snipers run 'n' gun?

Don't you realize that all AR's and SMG's can be ADS'd and burst fired while moving? No, you can't run, but when you ADS, you switch to little more than walking speed (at least in BC2). By your own criteria, yes, moving and ADS'ing is a realistic use of the weapon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
But is Crysis a realistic game? No, not really. You're a supersoldier in a super suit fighting North Korean soldiers and then Aliens (like NK have the money to stage any of what went on in Crysis, LOL).
That was exactly my point, thanks for confirming it. Realistic graphics != realistic game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Battlefield has realistic soldiers, realistic guns, realistic vehicles and all the rest. It's realism through and through. I'd totally disagree on the competitive online gameplay aspect. That's more of a consequence and what players have made it (organising Tournaments and such).
It has realistic looking soldiers, they're no more realistic than those in Crysis.
It has realistic looking guns. It has realistic looking vehicles. Again, that doesn't mean that the game has to be realistic. Is COD realistic? It has realistic looking guns.

On competitive gaming, fair enough, it's up to you if that's important. Any game with good gameplay is made competitive though, so if this isn't a competitive success, it has bad gameplay. Game balance can most of the time be fixed though (by removing OP weapons from competitions).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
The only reason they slowed Jets down is because it would be totally impossible to fly them on the maps. Don't kid yourself into thinking that it was for balance, it was to ensure they were actually usable. If they were realistic in speed they'd cross the map in seconds!
Thanks again for proving my point! Gameplay > Realism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Point is and you can't deny, BF3 is aimed at being a realistic Battlefield experience, that, as its very nature of being a videogame, does require balancing and adjustments to make sure it's playable. However, having 1HK on the body with a Sniper Rifle wouldn't be such a deal breaker, but really, neither is it not being included either. I still want to see SR's doing a decent amount of damage when they hit someone from any range because that's what SR's do. I would be happy to see SR's do what SR's do. At the end of the day I reckon people are just bothered that they might see many more snipers in the game if it was 1HK for a body shot (as in a shot ANYWHERE on the body) which is true and I'd have the same reservations. But all the same I'd still rather there be a major amount of damage dealt for a SR shot to the body, increasing as we go further up the body to the point that a neck shot is also 1HK.
No, BF3 is a game. Arma 2 is a realistic battlefield experience. Sure, BF3 has some realism, but it's a game nonetheless. And SR's do more damage than other weapons. I don't get why you keep saying you want that, 'cause they do. That doesn't mean they have to 1 HK in the upper body though and especially not without any downsides to them.
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