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Steelseries Kana - Page 11

post #101 of 503
You only need to use Omron switches on the mouse1 and mouse2 buttons. How much do 2 of these switches cost when purchased in bulk, <$1? The TTC switches can't be much cheaper, so we may be looking at <$0.50 difference.

The Kinzu Red "Pro" version costs $10-$15 more than the original. How much more will the "Pro" Kinzu v2 cost for <$1 of switches?

Will there be a "Pro" Kana?
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post #102 of 503
If there's a pro kana with omrom, that's the one for me. Otherwise my search continues..

Edit: I have a dream. A "mouse kit". Interchangeable shells, bases and boards. Choose your own sensor, build your own mouse. Upgrade it later. Mmm. It'll never happen.
Edited by cliffstah - 9/18/11 at 11:34am
post #103 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffstah View Post
If there's a pro kana with omrom, that's the one for me. Otherwise my search continues..
look a few pages back

http://www.overclock.net/mice/109979...l#post14971921
post #104 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaiiYaa View Post
Oh, how did I miss that?
post #105 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaingosu View Post
SteelSeries Kana Mouse (PC): Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

What price point issue? Is this really the price Kana will be released in EU? I mean Abyssus is like 30 pounds and has Omron, G400 also, even IMO 1.1 and 3.0 (10 years old mice) have Omron swithes. What are we talking about here? With 45 pounds you're in the DeathAdder range and that's a solid, flawless optical sensor, omron swithes, best mouse atm. If the price on amazon is wrong than i take it all back. If that's really the case then it's a big disappointment having TTC switches on a very expensive optical mouse. I understand you guys want to situate it between Kinzu and Sensei/Xai feature wise AND price wise, but you have to see my point of view (we were really hoping Kana will be the perfect mouse).

Exactly my point. The only reason i can think of is that Steelseries willingly chose not to include Omron just to make a big difference between Sensei and Kana (to justify the 80 pounds = 125$ price of Sensei most likely). On the other hand 5$ x 2 million mice sold ... imagine the profit
If you feel DA is the perfect mouse, then you should buy DA. I am not trying to compete with whatever your perception of a perfect mouse is, I am trying to make the best product I can, within certain parameters, one of them is price points. The most important parameter for us is performance for competitive gamers, where our testing so far is yielding consistent positive feedback.

Kana hasn't been announced yet. Big surprise: no price for Kana has been announced yet, either.

I hate to tell you this but 99% of the gamers who buy a mouse, doesn't care or even consider the switches in a mouse. Really. 99%. You may care. A lot of the people on this forum may care. But 99% of customers who will buy this mouse, will not care. This has nothing to do with trying to create differentiation, we don't make any of our products "less" to make others products look "more". And that would be even more true for something 99% of the market never gives a second thought to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricDelta View Post
I get Omron microswitches on eBay for around $2 each, delivered, to refurbish or upgrade mice. I don't know what the incremental cost is over TTC's, or even what microswitches cost an OEM, who is buying them in volume (as opposed to me, buying just a few as a hobbyist), but I would think it's only a few cents(?). A few cents more, multiplied by the number of buttons per mouse, still doesn't seem like it would add up to all that much. Those savings would have to be weighed against RMA's for switches that fail within the warranty period, AND against the loss of customers who aren't satisfied with the quality, when that happens. Once a mouse starts randomly double-clicking, or failing to register clicks, the mouse user will get VERY IRATE! Will that be a repeat customer? Really, a gaming mouse is more expensive than your typical office mouse and will be used more aggressively; one can reasonably expect it to have really good, durable switches. I've seen tons of comparatively inexpensive ($10-20) Logitech office mice that last 5+ years, and usually it's the cord that finally fails, almost never a failed Omron microswitch.
Any electronics products is the sum of its parts. To hit a certain price point you need to carefully evaluate and consider what parts you use to create that sum. Do you use a braided cord? Do you use a specific sensor? What surface treatment do you give the plastic? Ever wondered why some mice have glossy plastic on their sides? It's because its ultra cheap to do that, as you basically make no treatment of the plastic. We don't like that, we feel it's a fingerprint magnet, so we spend money and time on a surface treatment. That was just one little example, as a manufacturer you make a lot of choices for your product, the list goes on and on.

A few cents, a dollar, two dollars, end up being A LOT more before the product finally makes its way to a customer. There are a lot of steps from manufacturing to distributers to resellers, a long those steps a lot of parties will take a (fixed) percentage of the price, thats how they make money and stay in business.

The switches we use in our mice have a lifecycle we feel is fine, otherwise we would never use them to begin with. We offer 1 to 2 years warranty on all our products, we don't use any components that doesn't live up to that standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaingosu View Post
That's exactly why i think this is a marketing strategy.
You want a good basic mouse -> Kinzu
Want a mouse with 5 buttons, pay more -> Kana
Want better quality switches and flashing lights, pay even more -> Sensei

Although the fact that Sensei is laser and has more customizable features was already difference enough, they could've added in omrons on Kana. We can only hope now for a PRO version of Kana (like Red Kinzu)
It has nothing to do with marketing - as the 99% of the market doesn't care. Just like others, I feel you are perceiving your personal viewpoints (and those of many visitors here) as those of the general market. It is not so.

I would LOVE for you guys to dig Kana, Sensei and all our other mice products. But that being said, you may not even be in our target group . Hell, no one here may be anyones target group. Think about how much you (and many others here) care about components and details, that to most people would mean little to nothing. I personally find that refreshing, which is why I am here. But that doesn't mean we design for you or that we have the same priorities or viewpoints on what makes a product awesome. I think the sensor stuff we have done with Sensei is amazing and groundbreaking, I haven't seen anyone here even comment on it. There is no right or wrong in product design, there are only vision and priorities. More or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detto87 View Post
So it's already confirmed that the Kana will use TTC for its left and right main buttons?
Are they really that bad? Or is "only" the longevity affected?
In our testing, we have no negative reactions to this. None.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whybother View Post
You only need to use Omron switches on the mouse1 and mouse2 buttons. How much do 2 of these switches cost when purchased in bulk, <$1? The TTC switches can't be much cheaper, so we may be looking at <$0.50 difference.

The Kinzu Red "Pro" version costs $10-$15 more than the original. How much more will the "Pro" Kinzu v2 cost for <$1 of switches?

Will there be a "Pro" Kana?
We don't have a Kana Pro planned at this time. If there would be demand for such a product, we would go to work on one.
post #106 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimrom View Post
We don't have a Kana Pro planned at this time. If there would be demand for such a product, we would go to work on one.
I'm down for the Kana to come "pro" stock with Omron switches and a higher price tag. I would gladly pay 5$ more for the kana if it had omron switches.
post #107 of 503
Thank you for your insightful reply Kimrom.

Any confirmation on the number of side buttons on the Kana, Kinzu v2 and Kinzu v2 pro?

A lot of people are looking for something with a very similar size and shape to that of the Kinzu, except with a higher build quality and side buttons. I think something like that would be much sought after for certain popular RTS and MOBA genre games.
post #108 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimrom View Post
I think the sensor stuff we have done with Sensei is amazing and groundbreaking, I haven't seen anyone here even comment on it.
What stuff do you mean exactly?
post #109 of 503
Is there any news on the sensors that are going to be used in the kana and new kinzu mice?
post #110 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liaomiao View Post
Thank you for your insightful reply Kimrom.

Any confirmation on the number of side buttons on the Kana, Kinzu v2 and Kinzu v2 pro?

A lot of people are looking for something with a very similar size and shape to that of the Kinzu, except with a higher build quality and side buttons. I think something like that would be much sought after for certain popular RTS and MOBA genre games.
Kinzu has no side-buttons, never will. Kana has a total of 2 side buttons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullveyr View Post
What stuff do you mean exactly?
ExactAim, ExactAccel, ExactRate, FreeMove and so on. These are examples of stuff that no one had done before we dived into mice, that no one had made configurable directly on the mouse and that seems to be lost on "hardware fetishists".

My feeling is that many of you guys value other things than we do.

Our flagship mice are not just hardware, they are very much also personalization, features and mouse behavior. That is an area we internally find really interesting and spend enormous amounts of time geeking out over. Again our goal is not (just) to create a perfect piece of hardware, but more to create a tool that help our players win tournaments.
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