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post #8191 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

So I take it THIS (http://www.ekwb.com/shop/radiators-fans-accessories/radiators/ek-coolstram-xt/ek-coolstream-rad-xt-240.html) would be a no-no on the top of the Stryker? I have a Sabertooth Z87.thinking.gif

"Dimensions (LxWxH): 276x123x47mm "

EDIT:
I've been browsing through FrozenCPU.com's 240-rads, and unfortunately the ST30 is out of stock mad.gif

So I went and selected a few 30mm rads, which are as follows:
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 X-Flow Radiator
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4085/ex-rad-86

Magicool Extreme Dual 120mm Radiator - Slim Profile
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12702/ex-rad-227


And as a result, I am now highly confused tongue.gif
First: what's a split fin radiator?

Second: what's a Crossflow/X-Flow radiator?
As far as I can tell from just looking at one, a crossflow rad is just a rad where you fit the tubes on opposite sides and corners, allowing for more flexible placement for full loops. Did I miss any technical stuff? Does it cool any better than a normal rad with both tubes on one end?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

So I take it THIS (http://www.ekwb.com/shop/radiators-fans-accessories/radiators/ek-coolstram-xt/ek-coolstream-rad-xt-240.html) would be a no-no on the top of the Stryker? I have a Sabertooth Z87.thinking.gif

"Dimensions (LxWxH): 276x123x47mm "

EDIT:
I've been browsing through FrozenCPU.com's 240-rads, and unfortunately the ST30 is out of stock mad.gif

So I went and selected a few 30mm rads, which are as follows:
Black Ice GT Stealth 240 X-Flow Radiator
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4085/ex-rad-86

Magicool Extreme Dual 120mm Radiator - Slim Profile
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12702/ex-rad-227


And as a result, I am now highly confused tongue.gif
First: what's a split fin radiator?

Second: what's a Crossflow/X-Flow radiator?
As far as I can tell from just looking at one, a crossflow rad is just a rad where you fit the tubes on opposite sides and corners, allowing for more flexible placement for full loops. Did I miss any technical stuff? Does it cool any better than a normal rad with both tubes on one end?

No worries well get ya straightened out!

For your first question about split fin radiator...

Its more or less a design that some rad companies use XSPC being one on the ex series, It allows for more air flow and a little less restriction for better cooling for low speed fans. That's all I really know but performance is mainly based on FPI. Fins per inch. Generally the higher the FPI the better cooling per square inch, but the higher static pressure or fan speed you'll need to push air through.

Second Question. Crossflow/Xflow Radiator.

Basically what you described is true, just the end internal chamber of the rad is on opposite ending corners or more configuration options. I currently have but am not limited to a ex280 regular and a 240ex cross flow. Just depends on your tubing layout and pump set-up for each persons liking and need. As far as Crossflow vs XFlow its just Black Ice vs XSPC on this naming, same concept.

For the ek rad you selected... Heres the deal... the thickness on that rad is 47mm. That means if you have it hanging/attached for top of case you'll have about 13mm of space left until you reach the mobo. So you would have to get a 12cm fan to cut it close to the limit probably barely fitting like my setup. The Saber Tooth board you have has pretty high and large vrm's especially with the tough armor cover on. Youll need accessibility to the 8pin cpu power and the multiple fan headers on the top of the mobo. I wouldn't cut it that close if you could......

As far as the other rads you posted they will all work with some exceptions.

The first listed...Black Ice is a very solid choice. At 30mm thick you can add a nice static pressure regular 25mm fan under it and have about 5.5-6mm to spare before you come to the top of the mobo.


The coolgate is a fine choice too but its the same thickness as the xspc ex series. 35.5mm. So you'll be right on that cusp of cutting it super close for 8pin and ect access because the 35.5mm rad + 25mm fan = 60.5 That is the exact same overall thickness i run and I had to mod my fans. Our 8 pin is in the same position.

The same applies to the magi-cool rad. 30mm+good 25mm fan = 55mm. about that 5-.5-6mm spare.

XPSC rs vs ex series rad. The ex is only .5mm thicker but performs closer to the rx series because of fin FPI and other differences. So i would recommend if your gonna choose one Id go ex vs rs but if you get a 30mm rad go Black Ice or Magicool.

Here is the bottom line... The 8pin cpu plug is more of an issues with 280mm rads because that extra length, however it can still cause fitment issues for 240 rads as-well. As your deciding this is the rule of thumb for the trooper to go by...

You have near 60-61mm of clearance before your over mobo particle board. This goes for almost all atx form factor board. Now which can use more rad overhang because of vrm placement that's what the tricky part is that why I always say 60mm is the max limit. Will you need to mod a fan for the 8 pin, maybe,maybe not. It all depends. That is why I suggest if you have a rad on top dont go bigger than 30mm with a standard 25mm fan. Now you can go 30mm rad and 15.8 or 12mm fan for even more room sure that's great. Its all about the width math. It must equal less than or in some cases equal too 60mm total. Rad + fan set-up. This is not including potential fan options above rad /under handle and cover above that have been discussed earlier.



Enough of this long explanation..

If you really need a rad on top I'd go 30mm so there's no hassle.
Tell me what your planning to cool in your build this will help me help you decide what components to get.
You can Always mount rad on bottom and or a 120 rad on the rear if necessary.

I have all that and a 360 hanging in front, there is a lot of possibilities, not considering modding the top for a 360mm.

Just stay under 60mm if you wish to stay out of modding trouble!

Here is a link for some more explaining on different rad features, make sure to read bottom for the awards, I agree with alphacool st30 being awesome

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173028


Let me know if you still need explaining probably forgot a whole lot. Let me know your cooling plans!!!
Edited by sgtgates - 7/3/13 at 2:56pm
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post #8192 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtgates View Post


As far as the other rads you posted they will all work with some exceptions.

The first listed...Black Ice is a very solid choice. At 30mm thick you can add a nice static pressure regular 25mm fan under it and have about 5.5-6mm to spare before you come to the top of the mobo.


The same applies to the magi-cool rad. 30mm+good 25mm fan = 55mm. about that 5-.5-6mm spare.

Let me know if you still need explaining probably forgot a whole lot. Let me know your cooling plans!!!

Which of the Black Ice rads (X-Flow or...normal flow?) would you recommend if doing just a CPU loop? Intuition tells me the rad with the holes on the same side would be preferred. But then again, if I want to expand later, the X-Flow would give me greater flexibility.

Ahh..decisions decisions...

EDIT: forgot to detail my water cooling needs/wants/plans

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/LeMonarque/saved/1Tdl

^ That's my unfinished list. Not sure about the pump, I like the block, I like the tubes, not sure about the reservoir, kill coil seems like standard fare, and lastly I haven't the slightest idea how many compression fittings I will need to piece everything together. More on that in a second.

My tubing selection is based on my low knowledge... If possible I'd like to get RIGID tubing in one of the following configs:

black rigid acrylic tubing + white compression fittings
white rigid acrylic tubing + black compression fittings
clear rigid acrylic tubing + silver compression fittings
or any flex tubing equivalent of those three

My reluctance to get rigid tubing lies in the fact that I have no idea how to deal with bends and have no idea how to connect the tubes together. I don't want to heat the tubes and bend them, so that means I'd need angled compression fittings, and figuring out which ones I need will take a lot of planning (ie, what kind of space do I want to take up, how many bends, what angles, what lengths plus what fittings will get me from point A to point B)... And if I get Primochill flex tubing, then...I still don't know how many compression fittings I need rolleyes.gif

I want to mount the radiator to the top of the case, and if the dual-hole-on-one-side rad is the way to go, then I'd like if those holes could be oriented to the right side of the case.

So basically I'm a total noob to water cooling laughingsmiley.gif

EDIT2: I am also open to any discussion on different ID tubes. I'm just pulling things out of air here, but it seems to me like the smaller the tube, the less matter there is to transfer heat to, but the higher the water pressure and the faster the water moves. With wider tubes, there is more matter to transfer heat to, but the water pressure is lower. Obviously this will depend on the strength of the pump and how much a difference the increased ID makes, which could eliminate any advantages that a smaller tube may have.

And I'm clueless there too redface.gif

I may add my GPU to the loop in the future, but I have no plans to water cool my motherboard or RAM. That makes me nervous confusedsmiley.png (unless I sell, fork over some money, and swap out for the upcoming ASUS Maximus VI Formula, which has integrated board cooling)
Edited by LeMonarque - 7/3/13 at 4:24pm
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post #8193 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

Which of the Black Ice rads (X-Flow or...normal flow?) would you recommend if doing just a CPU loop? Intuition tells me the rad with the holes on the same side would be preferred. But then again, if I want to expand later, the X-Flow would give me greater flexibility.

Ahh..decisions decisions...

EDIT: forgot to detail my water cooling needs/wants/plans

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/LeMonarque/saved/1Tdl

^ That's my unfinished list. Not sure about the pump, I like the block, I like the tubes, not sure about the reservoir, kill coil seems like standard fare, and lastly I haven't the slightest idea how many compression fittings I will need to piece everything together. More on that in a second.

My tubing selection is based on my low knowledge... If possible I'd like to get RIGID tubing in one of the following configs:

black rigid acrylic tubing + white compression fittings
white rigid acrylic tubing + black compression fittings
clear rigid acrylic tubing + silver compression fittings
or any flex tubing equivalent of those three

My reluctance to get rigid tubing lies in the fact that I have no idea how to deal with bends and have no idea how to connect the tubes together. I don't want to heat the tubes and bend them, so that means I'd need angled compression fittings, and figuring out which ones I need will take a lot of planning (ie, what kind of space do I want to take up, how many bends, what angles, what lengths plus what fittings will get me from point A to point B)... And if I get Primochill flex tubing, then...I still don't know how many compression fittings I need rolleyes.gif

I want to mount the radiator to the top of the case, and if the dual-hole-on-one-side rad is the way to go, then I'd like if those holes could be oriented to the right side of the case.

So basically I'm a total noob to water cooling laughingsmiley.gif

EDIT2: I am also open to any discussion on different ID tubes. I'm just pulling things out of air here, but it seems to me like the smaller the tube, the less matter there is to transfer heat to, but the higher the water pressure and the faster the water moves. With wider tubes, there is more matter to transfer heat to, but the water pressure is lower. Obviously this will depend on the strength of the pump and how much a difference the increased ID makes, which could eliminate any advantages that a smaller tube may have.

And I'm clueless there too redface.gif

I may add my GPU to the loop in the future, but I have no plans to water cool my motherboard or RAM. That makes me nervous confusedsmiley.png (unless I sell, fork over some money, and swap out for the upcoming ASUS Maximus VI Formula, which has integrated board cooling)

Well thats good as watercooling ram/mobo is basically useless for 99.99% of users. Though it does look cool!

i would NOT use 1/2x3/4 in the storm trooper as i did, not enough space if you plan to add in gpu's later on.

If by rigid tubing you mean like pure copper tubing, or that glass tubing... Copper tubing has no compression fittings, most people chose to solder pipe to fitting. Iv'e not done much research on the "glass" looking tubes people use, but i do know this from taking a glass blowing class in college... If you are heating it up, then letting it cool without curing you are breaking the temper of the glass which can/will lead to temp cracks. WHICh is probably why you always see those systems with straight lines.

As to standard acrylic tubing, what ever you like, get. Also, its much cheaper to just buy a Silver Kill Coil then buy all "silver" fittings, if you are putting them down for biocide reasons.

As to being a newb(not noob), we all started some where. newbs are new, noobs are dumb...

Also, you would be surprised how little pump speed effects water temp, can actually increase system temp due to running the pump hot.



i would put this with push/pull high speed gentle typhoons in the bottom of your case. As the case is built for it with zero modding (besides removing that little black bar held in by two screws) I use this in my system and it is a BEAST.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16236/ex-rad-410/Alphacool_NexXxoS_Monsta_Dual_120mm_Radiator_-_80mm_Thick.html?tl=c95s160b42




The more ports on the rad, the easier its going to be for you to setup the first time... It almost never turns out how you think it will.

You talked about future upgrades, like adding in gpu (gpu's?!) If this is the case you should look to get more rad then you need for now. IE a monster and a 360.

The picture is a bit too small to see this. I have an ever so slight kink from my monsta to my titan. This was not a problem when i had my 670's in, but the Titan link is a good 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch wider then the standard CSQ EK link.
Edited by skupples - 7/3/13 at 4:39pm
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post #8194 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

i would put this with push/pull high speed gentle typhoons in the bottom of your case

Well..here's the deal. It's a little embarrassing. I bought my parts over a month ago and at the time I couldn't spare any time thinking about a water cooling setup.

So I bought an H100i.

Right now it's on my CPU. I want to put it somewhere after installing my CPU loop. I can also either cool my CPU first or my GPU first. Something tells me CPU first is more important. So that H100i can only really be used by 1 other part - the GPU. I plan to rig the H100i to my GPU a la "The Mod". And the tubes are only long enough for the rad to be placed - you guessed it - on the bottom of the case.

So my options for CPU rads are:
Top 240
Rear 120/140

I can add that Monsta (no kidding that thing is MASSIVE! blinksmiley.gif) to the loop later on when I expand to my GPU, and then reconfigure the tubing so that the out-flow of the CPU block goes to the bottom 80mm rad....right?

mellowsmiley.gif
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post #8195 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

Well..here's the deal. It's a little embarrassing. I bought my parts over a month ago and at the time I couldn't spare any time thinking about a water cooling setup.

So I bought an H100i.

Right now it's on my CPU. I want to put it somewhere after installing my CPU loop. I can also either cool my CPU first or my GPU first. Something tells me CPU first is more important. So that H100i can only really be used by 1 other part - the GPU. I plan to rig the H100i to my GPU a la "The Mod". And the tubes are only long enough for the rad to be placed - you guessed it - on the bottom of the case.

So my options for CPU rads are:
Top 240
Rear 120/140

I can add that Monsta (no kidding that thing is MASSIVE! blinksmiley.gif) to the loop later on when I expand to my GPU, and then reconfigure the tubing so that the out-flow of the CPU block goes to the bottom 80mm rad....right?

mellowsmiley.gif

If this is the case, i would leave the H100 on your cpu and build a gpu loop. You are looking at WAY more time and effort to mount that h100 to your gpu, then just leaving it on your cpu and building a gpu loop. The H100 does a hell of a job cooling a cpu, they just don't last very long. hopefully that has changed with the 100i
Edited by skupples - 7/3/13 at 4:44pm
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post #8196 of 12474
WARNING WALL OF SPOILERS

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loonies View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

This measurement must be in front page... yes... useful info btw + rep thumb.gif

Even the precise measurement for inside radiator under the roof... or another measurement "inside" the case.

Arghh... i'm just forget to upload my build pic here...

I'm sorry if my english is bad smile.gif
you can always mod the handle as many have and use a normal fan pretty easy to do. but push pull on thin rads is not that effective
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtgates View Post

Ya np!

If you ever need any other advice whether it be fan spec selection case mods or water-cooling/overclocking I'm pretty good at it all!


Regarding fitment my current build status, the rad I have up top is a ex280. I have the rad mounted to top of case and have 25mm thick fans under it in exhaust. I had to mod the corner of the fans to fit around my 8pin and above my Crosshair V Formula-Z. Since my whole system is gonna change on my 21'st bday this month I wont go into much detail but If I was new to a custom loop and modding I would go with the same rad (if desired, or even a 240ex, same applies to any 35.5mm rad) I would go with 15.8mm fans like the question above in order to not have to mod fan placement and super tight fitting over mobos with high vrm heatsinks like my Formula-Z. That way you'd get a little more play room for ease of install as well as cable routing if you go behind mobo tray like I do. Then I would get the same fans and put them up top for the finish of the push or pull set-up. Will fit very neatly without worrying about vrm or ram slot clearance and modding.

If you wanted a better fan selection option such as the Corsair sp120 I have on my rear rad or typhoons or any 25mm regular 120mm fan for that matter, I would go with this rad for a 240 up top...

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_667_1075&products_id=34155

The St30 is one of my favorite 30mm rads. Neck and neck with the black ice models performance wise. This would give you the ability to mount under top with 1 set of 25mm thick fans underneath. Now of course if you want push/pull you would need the no > than the 15.8mm for the fan under handle up top.

Having a 35mm rad like the Xspc EX series with nice 15.8mm fans will yield about the same performance as a st30 with one set of 25mm high static fans.

Now I know this may be redundant but you would only be 1.1mm longer with a st30 with push pull 15.8mm fans all under the roof if one desired. I will not recommend that set-up with a mobo like mine or a close substitute. Now if you had a board like the Giga ud3 990fx for example, you could get away with that certain push/pull setup up top because of mobo clearances, speak from experience used that board on 3 different builds, 2 being in the trooper.


Here is a photo of the close up on my 25mm fans under ex280 rad over 8pin and mobo vrms. I know its hard to see not great camera but the back right corner of the fan is trimmed of the 8pin barely click in...
The distance between the fan blades/motor and the vrm's is like NILL. Maybe 1mm at most. That why i recommended the above to others!

EDIT: Turned on my rgb leds to try to give better picture

Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder 7.0.1041 - Jul 19 2011;
Intel(R) IPP JPEG encoder 7.0.1041 - Jul 19 2011;

Ignore the blue 3pin fan connector all ugly, externally testing a d5 pump -.-

Sorry for the long post just trying to give potential useful info!
Will keep posting as i think of good advice

-Cheers
SgtGates

i can fit a 45 mm rad on my tropper without modding anything. ( both my sabertooth r2.0 (990fx) and my CHVz you can use the secondary mounting points for 120mm ( there are only 7 holes but you can easily add an 8th if you want. they are further from the cpu tray but you have JUST enough clearance.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

Just remember people, the issue of power plug, and heat sink is per motherboard.

Example. MSI-Z77A-GDXX series motherboards heat sinks even get in the way of mounting a fan in that back spot, while the power is totally out of the way. (power plug is to the left of that little VRM)



converse example: Maximus V Formula has much lower profile vrm heat-sinks and better power plug location.


(both of these are old pictures)

+1 mobos are set up differently i have ~15 cm more to my ram on my CHVz then on my sabberkitty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4085/ex-rad-86

Looks like, yes it points to the style of fittings... Though, most high end rads come with 4-6 ports for ease of use.

looking at the rest now.

Split fin sounds like a companies way of differentiating there product.

Iv'e never used any of those companies... I normally stick to Alphacool rads.

+1 alphacool onry they are awesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

Which of the Black Ice rads (X-Flow or...normal flow?) would you recommend if doing just a CPU loop? Intuition tells me the rad with the holes on the same side would be preferred. But then again, if I want to expand later, the X-Flow would give me greater flexibility.

Ahh..decisions decisions...

EDIT: forgot to detail my water cooling needs/wants/plans

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/LeMonarque/saved/1Tdl

^ That's my unfinished list. Not sure about the pump, I like the block, I like the tubes, not sure about the reservoir, kill coil seems like standard fare, and lastly I haven't the slightest idea how many compression fittings I will need to piece everything together. More on that in a second.

My tubing selection is based on my low knowledge... If possible I'd like to get RIGID tubing in one of the following configs:

black rigid acrylic tubing + white compression fittings
white rigid acrylic tubing + black compression fittings
clear rigid acrylic tubing + silver compression fittings
or any flex tubing equivalent of those three

My reluctance to get rigid tubing lies in the fact that I have no idea how to deal with bends and have no idea how to connect the tubes together. I don't want to heat the tubes and bend them, so that means I'd need angled compression fittings, and figuring out which ones I need will take a lot of planning (ie, what kind of space do I want to take up, how many bends, what angles, what lengths plus what fittings will get me from point A to point B)... And if I get Primochill flex tubing, then...I still don't know how many compression fittings I need rolleyes.gif

I want to mount the radiator to the top of the case, and if the dual-hole-on-one-side rad is the way to go, then I'd like if those holes could be oriented to the right side of the case.

So basically I'm a total noob to water cooling laughingsmiley.gif

EDIT2: I am also open to any discussion on different ID tubes. I'm just pulling things out of air here, but it seems to me like the smaller the tube, the less matter there is to transfer heat to, but the higher the water pressure and the faster the water moves. With wider tubes, there is more matter to transfer heat to, but the water pressure is lower. Obviously this will depend on the strength of the pump and how much a difference the increased ID makes, which could eliminate any advantages that a smaller tube may have.

And I'm clueless there too redface.gif

I may add my GPU to the loop in the future, but I have no plans to water cool my motherboard or RAM. That makes me nervous confusedsmiley.png (unless I sell, fork over some money, and swap out for the upcoming ASUS Maximus VI Formula, which has integrated board cooling)

check this out ( there are vids pic one of the links and it shows you how
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMonarque View Post

Well..here's the deal. It's a little embarrassing. I bought my parts over a month ago and at the time I couldn't spare any time thinking about a water cooling setup.

So I bought an H100i.

Right now it's on my CPU. I want to put it somewhere after installing my CPU loop. I can also either cool my CPU first or my GPU first. Something tells me CPU first is more important. So that H100i can only really be used by 1 other part - the GPU. I plan to rig the H100i to my GPU a la "The Mod". And the tubes are only long enough for the rad to be placed - you guessed it - on the bottom of the case.

So my options for CPU rads are:
Top 240
Rear 120/140

I can add that Monsta (no kidding that thing is MASSIVE! blinksmiley.gif) to the loop later on when I expand to my GPU, and then reconfigure the tubing so that the out-flow of the CPU block goes to the bottom 80mm rad....right?

mellowsmiley.gif

when water cooling thicker rads are not necessarily better.... very important to remember. thin rads = silent and low speed fans thick rads = noisier and high speed fans. they do tend to cool better but at the cost of noise. pick what kind of a system you want.

another good rule of thumb is 1x120mm rad ( thin ) per peice of equip MIN ( think about your cpu heat sinks they are ~ 1~2 heatsinks each right? ) again that is min. i always add 2x120mm rads per piece but that is my personal choice
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

If this is the case, i would leave the H100 on your cpu and build a gpu loop. You are looking at WAY more time and effort to mount that h100 to your gpu, then just leaving it on your cpu and building a gpu loop. The H100 does a hell of a job cooling a cpu, they just don't last very long. hopefully that has changed with the 100i

gonna have to beg to difer h100i is only slightly better then a Noctua NH-D14
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post #8197 of 12474
I cant wait to mod this case!!!! biggrin.gif all builds' looking good guys. keep it up. smile.gif
   
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post #8198 of 12474
Case arrived today. Sweet Jesus is this thing big. Just got done moving everything to the new case and everything worked on the first boot. Think the first thing I'm going to do tomorrow is flip the HD cage so the fans are at the front.
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post #8199 of 12474
welcome. yea not much really does it justice
i think this one is one of the few
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qx4HAkNdu5w
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post #8200 of 12474
Quote:
Originally Posted by afdude2018 View Post

Case arrived today. Sweet Jesus is this thing big. Just got done moving everything to the new case and everything worked on the first boot. Think the first thing I'm going to do tomorrow is flip the HD cage so the fans are at the front.

This was the first thing I did too. I've been a bit iffy whether I liked this case or not, but now I'm loving it! SOOO much space, extremely easy to use and plenty of cooling. Loving it! biggrin.gif

Just wanted to throw out a question as my Google searches have been fruitless - are there only 3 connections that can be made to the fan controller? I'm gonna swap out the stock fans with some Scythe Kama Flow 2's and I just want to know how crazy I can go with fans. Thanks! thumb.gif
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