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[Bloomberg] HTC Sues Apple Using Patents Obtained From Google Last Week - Page 13

post #121 of 195
You and every other poster defending google are pulling numbers and guesses out of your asses. "i doubt", "i guess", "i think" is all I hear.

How about some facts. Googles total revenue last quarter is less than 3% all mobile (Android is some percentage of that) or something like $250m a quarter... that's revenue

Another way of looking at it is spending 12.5b Wipes out the entire profits of google from the last 2 years.

http://investor.google.com/earnings/..._earnings.html

Facts, straight from Google.

But because of your cognitive bias you would prefer your guesses, hunches and beliefs to actual facts.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...-of-fanboyism/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
So it could be misleading? Cool, now provide proof of it being misleading and Android losing money for Google, he's got more proof than you so far.



And while they may not make a profit this quarter thanks to that acquisition, who knows if they'd lost money based off Android beforehand? And considering how much they get from ads..I doubt it'd be long for that 12.5B to be remade.
post #122 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Android Inc. was a 4-person start-up that existed for less than 2 years before google bought them. I'm sure it was a profitable buy-out for Android Inc. people, but it could not have been a lot of money in terms of google's net worth and revenue-generation at the time, even to cover the IP that Android Inc. had before google purchased them. Too bad no one disclosed the official purchase price--my guess would be $10M or less for an all-inclusive purchase price, and I think that is still generous. Just a guess though. Regardless, Android is a relatively cheap portion of the business to have and maintain. I would be surprised if revenue from only the android app store hasn't covered the cost of the android business segment so far.

Here's more info on Android revenue-generation for Google:
http://www.quora.com/Google-Inc-comp...ate-for-Google

And I don't think it's fair to include things like the $12.5B purchase of Motorola to acquire more IP. Android existed, functioned, and generated revenue well before that.
Motorola stated that they were going to start suing other manufactures of Android hand sets, also it's widely claimed that they bought MM for the patents.

If you don't include some of that 12.5 billion as an Android expense, what is it? Clearly it doesn't do anything for search.
post #123 of 195
Hurray!

Everybody with me now... HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #124 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheelz View Post
You and every other poster defending google are pulling numbers and guesses out of your asses. "i doubt", "i guess", "i think" is all I hear.

How about some facts. Googles total revenue last quarter is less than 3% all mobile (Android is some percentage of that) or something like $250m a quarter... that's revenue

Another way of looking at it is spending 12.5b Wipes out the entire profits of google from the last 2 years.

http://investor.google.com/earnings/..._earnings.html

Facts, straight from Google.

But because of your cognitive bias you would prefer your guesses, hunches and beliefs to actual facts.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...-of-fanboyism/

Well good job proving that they have recouped their investment.

The cost while undisclosed of Android Inc, in August 2005, could have been at most 150,000,000 in R&D. Which they obviously didn't spend all in one place, thus giving you that ridiculous amount of money as a Point of Sale, according to you they recoup that in one quarter of 3% mobile sales right?

R&D in Q3 05
http://investor.google.com/documents...html#tx53373_4

The document you linked does not have anything mobile specific
<in ref:http://investor.google.com/earnings/..._earnings.html</ref>

Want to share with everyone where it says which part of mobile revenue? Or did you refer to OTHER SOURCES OF REVENUE as their mobile revenue which is the only location of "3%"? So not only did they recoup their original investment and probably all the past money funded into Android development based on your figures, your source of profitability over the last 3 months is questionable. To further "strengthen" your argument, you bring up a recent purchase of a hardware manufacturer. Of which, has brought no changes to the OS known as Android, and the only acknowledged use thus far has been for providing patents to defend Android from patent trolling.

Including a recent purchase of Motorola Mobile as the development of Android is delusional as Android existed before the merger. As far as extending Android from here on, this scenario is quite possible, but anything you and I could claim would only be speculative. Therefore, you can't even prove the merger will do anything for Android development anymore than I can prove it was for Google's new smartphone business.

More than likely it was to protect Android from attackers like Apple, secure further development of Android, and possibly also to extend their own bid in the mobile computing business. As far as Android development is concern, your figures are inaccurate, your merger/purchase claim is unproven to aid Android development in the basic sense of development, and your claim is without merit even using your "facts" as they would have turned a profit.

P.S. If you are curious to know where mobile profits would be found would be through what generates profits, AdSense, Pay-Per-Clicks, and Google owned sites / business.
Edited by RagingCain - 9/8/11 at 8:29pm
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post #125 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheelz View Post
You and every other poster defending google are pulling numbers and guesses out of your asses. "i doubt", "i guess", "i think" is all I hear.

How about some facts. Googles total revenue last quarter is less than 3% all mobile (Android is some percentage of that) or something like $250m a quarter... that's revenue

Another way of looking at it is spending 12.5b Wipes out the entire profits of google from the last 2 years.

http://investor.google.com/earnings/..._earnings.html

Facts, straight from Google.

But because of your cognitive bias you would prefer your guesses, hunches and beliefs to actual facts.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...-of-fanboyism/
No offense, but your attempt to belittle us by calling us fanboys is a fail when your own point proves what we've been saying. If in a single quarter Google earned $250,000,000, that quarter ALONE is believably profitable for Android's entire development investment over the past 3 years. There is ABSOLUTELY, no way in HELL, that Google bought Android for more than that off a couple of garage software-tinkerers. Also, by the way, of COURSE Google doesn't earn much revenue from Android. That means the Android operating system ITSELF. Google doesn't charge a dime for ANYONE (LG/Samsung/HTC/etc.) who wants to sell a phone with Android on it. It's totally free open source with no licensing fees. The proper figure to consider would be their ad revenue earned THROUGH Android devices, which is not broken down in that announcement unfortunately.

TLDR: Android's ad revenue does not fall under that 3% "other revenue."

Funny thing to note, that has nothing to do with our debate here, is that Microsoft is making more money off HTC Android sales than their entire own WP7 platform from their settlement with HTC. Microsoft makes ~$5-$15 per HTC Android handset sold.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 9/8/11 at 8:27pm
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post #126 of 195
Thread Starter 
Herp, Google doesn't make much money from Android because it's licensed freely, sillyhead.

What Google is interested at is ads, and it makes a ton of cash from ads in all shapes and sizes - a sizable chunk of it is mobile. That's how the company rolls: give the product dirt-cheap (in this case, FREE) and then make money from the content (advertisements).

Ever heard of the razor + blades analogy?
post #127 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
Herp, Google doesn't make much money from Android because it's licensed freely, sillyhead.

What Google is interested at is ads, and it makes a ton of cash from ads in all shapes and sizes - a sizable chunk of it is mobile. That's how the company rolls: give the product dirt-cheap (in this case, FREE) and then make money from the content (advertisements).

Ever heard of the razor + blades analogy?
Correct, which is where I was going with my post.

Almost 30% of their 9 billion Q2 revenues was just through AdSense (not including Pay-Per-Clicks).
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post #128 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
No offense, but your attempt to belittle us by calling us fanboys is a fail when your own point proves what we've been saying. If in a single quarter Google earned $250,000,000, that quarter ALONE is profitable for Android. There is ABSOLUTELY, no way in HELL, that Google bought Android for more than that.
Do you know what basic terms like revenue mean? Net income? profit?

Let's give you and that other guy a hint... Motorola last quarter had revenues of 3.34B

Net income was neg 57 million.

The contribution of android is so small that it's not even broken out as a separate category yet. "mobile" includes admob and IOS search etc. When I use my iPod Touch I see more admob ads than anything else.

If you look at my post you can see revenue in bold. It should be clear that the net income from android will be some number much smaller than the revenue.


http://mediacenter.motorola.com/Pres...ults-3770.aspx
post #129 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellonwheelz View Post
You and every other poster defending google are pulling numbers and guesses out of your asses. "i doubt", "i guess", "i think" is all I hear.

How about some facts. Googles total revenue last quarter is less than 3% all mobile (Android is some percentage of that) or something like $250m a quarter... that's revenue

Another way of looking at it is spending 12.5b Wipes out the entire profits of google from the last 2 years.

http://investor.google.com/earnings/..._earnings.html

Facts, straight from Google.

But because of your cognitive bias you would prefer your guesses, hunches and beliefs to actual facts.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/featu...-of-fanboyism/
I simply asked for proof of your argument, I didn't throw any numbers around that aren't obvious nor actually try to disprove anything you say, just asked for evidence, instead you say I'm biased to Android and that I'm pulling numbers out of thin air...Nice argument. That link only proves that Google will have made that 12.5B back by the end of 2012, besides...Every time a business is bought out, there's always teething costs you have to wear, if you do include that 12.5B...Well, lets see...Android gets more sales due to not being banned in various countries, Google might start making their own phones soon enough...The possibilities are endless, they will easily make that 12.5B back, and if you don't include it? Well, as Stealth said...There's no way that it cost more than $250M to develop Android, most of it is Linux.
post #130 of 195
I'm done, time to sleep. I'll come back tomorrow. Respects to you hellonwheelz, for being a respectful poster with such little history on OCN, I just disagree with the numbers you're sharing and I'll collaborate with it further tomorrow or some other day.
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