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Are there still issues with Sandforce SF2281? - Page 3

post #21 of 86
Just to be clear, I didn't point fingers when I said hate. I'm just saying there is a lot of justifiable dislike for OCZ here. Hell, I'll never buy from them I know that.

And there's a difference between being an apologist for Sandforce and recognizing that sometimes for some folks it works. It didn't work for me, and frankly I think that the problem is still a major concern that needs to be considered for anyone considering buying a Sandforce drive. As an individual consumer, I think it's a terribly unreliable product if you're using the latest chipset. The minute I switched to the Crucial drive, my stability increased tenfold and I have no issues with my machine. I believe my singular, anecdotal experience provides enough context that there are shades of grey to this debate.

But what has been made abundantly clear to me here is that there are passionate voices on both sides of the fence, and that violently disagreeing with each other because both perspectives are valid is a little counterproductive.

I think it's better to simply admit that Sandforce still has issues, which is the ultimate question of this thread and has been answered sufficiently by several voices. Beyond that, it's noise and spin. smile.gif
Edited by CapnBiggles - 9/9/11 at 9:08am
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post #22 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75;14878153 
I realize that it can be percieved that I "hate" OCZ/Sandforce but the perception is wrong.
Never said you hate it. I only disagree that you're argument about the problems with these drives is perceived worse than it really is. I acknowledge that there were tons of issues with 2.06. But I'm confident with many others that 2.09 and later has resolved them.

Some people need to look at the scope of the situation without a blind eye. There are thousands of SF 228X drives being sold. The lower end drives are not necessarily going to enthusiests like ourselves. We can go to the OCZ website and follow a 20 step program including cmos clear, secure erase with linux and reinstall windows. Your average user may not.

I believe any SSD should be taken in with more technical knowledge, especially 100% configuring it than an HDD. I think that'd be comparing apples to oranges

That same user can install a Crucial m4 or Intel 510 exactly like a HDD and have no issues. I have a conscience. I can't sit here and recommend something that I know has a good chance of giving someone issues that they may not be able to resolve. How does anyone do that???

You can do the same with 1000's of OCZ drives. As stated above, 2.06. I would have to agree. 2.09 and later -- No one should go through issues installing or step procedures. I never had to, none of my friends needed to. A lot of people here don't need to.

Why are there people defending an SSD that need a complicated setup pattern that may or may not solve the problem?
But the drive doesn't need any complicated setup. The only complication is what you'd have to do with any other drives. Such as a port from HDD to the SSD, and properly aligning the drive, or other technical stuff. The issue was what could of happened if you didn't follow it correctly (potential BSODS) OCZ merely wants to make sure every user is following what has worked with them, the manufacturer.

I bought my V3 back in April. I'm on the OCZ forum every single day. I've done so many secure erases and modified installation steps that I've lost count. I did it on 2.06 and no luck. I did it on 2.08 and no luck. 2.09 got me stable with me setting up the drive the way that I want with no OCZ guide needed which is exactly how it should be.
Sorry that you are not happy with your drive. But there are many many people happy with theirs. If you don't want to recommend it, don't say it has tons of issues, when it no longer does. Say it has issues with 2.06. And 2.09>2.11 resolved over 90% of the problems.

If we all sit here and make apologies for Sandforce, what happens with the next generation of drives? We'll all be beta testers again. If we don't make a stand and let them know that this is not acceptable, this is what we will continue to get in the future.

No one is apologizing for anything. Sandforce controllers are great -- They had an issue and are worked hard to resolve them

We just have to agree to disagree
     
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post #23 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBiggles;14878270 
Just to be clear, I didn't point fingers when I said hate. I'm just saying there is a lot of justifiable dislike for OCZ here. Hell, I'll never buy from them I know that.

And there's a difference between being an apologist for Sandforce and recognizing that sometimes for some folks it works. It didn't work for me, and frankly I think that the problem is still a major concern that needs to be considered for anyone considering buying a Sandforce drive. As an individual consumer, I think it's a terribly unreliable product if you're using the latest chipset. The minute I switched to the Crucial drive, my stability increased tenfold and I have no issues with my machine. I believe my singular, anecdotal experience provides enough context that there are shades of grey to this debate.

But what has been made abundantly clear to me here is that there are passionate voices on both sides of the fence, and that violently disagreeing with each other because both perspectives are valid is a little counterproductive.

I think it's better to simply admit that Sandforce still has issues, which is the ultimate question of this thread and has been answered sufficiently by several voices. Beyond that, it's noise and spin. smile.gif


I'm only defending OCZ as there aren't many people chiming in saying "My drive works great" and there are tons of people here that can vouch for it. It's basically just me, though... you get more people reporting how bad the drive is because of a firmware issue, and no love about the drive before 2.06 or after 2.08 baaasmiley.gif
     
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post #24 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBiggles;14878270 
Just to be clear, I didn't point fingers when I said hate. I'm just saying there is a lot of justifiable dislike for OCZ here. Hell, I'll never buy from them I know that.

I realize that you weren't pointing fingers Capn. But I did feel that because I do post a lot of justified negatives toward Sandforce, it could misinterpreted as hate.

All I want them to do is stop pointing fingers at everyone else and just fix the problem.
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post #25 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsagna;14881039 
I'm only defending OCZ as there aren't many people chiming in saying "My drive works great" and there are tons of people here that can vouch for it. It's basically just me, though... you get more people reporting how bad the drive is because of a firmware issue, and no love about the drive before 2.06 or after 2.08 baaasmiley.gif

There were plenty of instances of bsod on 2.02 Balsaga. It was rumored that 2.06 started the bsod problem until people with 2.02 chimed in on the ocz website to report they were getting bsod with 2.02 as well.

2.09 was better for stability but speed was reduced. My 4k scores in as-ssd were below what OCZ advertised for the drive.

So realistically, 2.11 is the only firmware one could claim to love the drive with. That's assuming they have no issues. But I'm guessing that's not the case because of what Tony posted today.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?93962-Increasing-number-of-users-asking-for-refunds..please-read-before-posting-if-this-applies-to-you

That's right. OCZ is getting more and more people being fed up and asking for refunds. How could a "small minority" of users cause enough problems for him to post that?
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post #26 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsagna;14881011 
But the drive doesn't need any complicated setup. The only complication is what you'd have to do with any other drives. Such as a port from HDD to the SSD, and properly aligning the drive, or other technical stuff. The issue was what could of happened if you didn't follow it correctly (potential BSODS) OCZ merely wants to make sure every user is following what has worked with them, the manufacturer.

So this procedure below from the OCZ support team would not be complicated for the average user?

1 remove the drive
2 clear the cmos
3 set hotplugging to disabled, set up bios then f10 and exit,....now power off
4 attach the drive
5 reflash the FW to the drive with hotplugging disabled
6 once reflashed, power down the system, remove power to the drive for 1 minute, reconnect the drive and power on.
7 boot to windows... go to device manager, navigate to disk drives, navigate to the SSD drive, right click on it...uninstall
9 you will now be asked to reboot
10 boot back to windows, let the drive be installed again and reboot
11 boot back to windows, make sure power scheme is how you want it ( i run balanced with sleep and hybrid enabled and LSPM to moderate)
12 reboot then run WEI
13 reboot
14 test

You said in a previous post that people weren't following the steps properly to stay clear of bsod. That list is what OCZ is asking bsod sufferers to try. I don't recall OCZ ever saying anything about alignment being cause for issues. They did say a fresh install is recommended and then win7 takes care of alignment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsagna;14881011 
Sorry that you are not happy with your drive. But there are many many people happy with theirs. If you don't want to recommend it, don't say it has tons of issues, when it no longer does. Say it has issues with 2.06. And 2.09>2.11 resolved over 90% of the problems.

I don't believe I've ever said they have tons of issues. In fact, they only have one issue. bsod. And I don't for one second believe that 2.09 and 2.11 resolved over 90% of the problems. Not for a single minute and I'll tell you why.

1. Sandforce is flying a rep down to Anandtech to look at a machine that he's been able to reproduce the bug repeatedly.

2. The post Tony made about the increasing number of people wanting their money back.

3. The OCZ support forum has 7 stickied threads dealing with the bsod issue in one way or another.

4. Any true fixes incorporated in 2.11 would have been part of the latest Corsair firmware as well as being part of the release firmware for the Kingston Hyper-x and Mushkin drives. Yet, we see people having the exact same problem with those drives.

I respect your opinion and I respect you for being able to debate in an amicable fashion unlike some here. But I simply cannot agree that this is anywhere near as solved as you claim. There are simply too many people in too many places having the issue to logically believe it.
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post #27 of 86
Just curious: are these issues specific to the SF-2281 controller or are the older SF-1200 and SF1500 controllers affected as well? Or do they have their own issues?
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post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy;14882754 
Just curious: are these issues specific to the SF-2281 controller or are the older SF-1200 and SF1500 controllers affected as well? Or do they have their own issues?

The issue is specific to the 2281. The older controllers, afaik, don't have any issues.
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post #29 of 86
yes there is absolutely no doubt that there is still an issue. no one has even claimed that it is fixed. that is ridiculous.
this is a pervasive ongoing bug that hasnt been nailed down, no one has even claimed that the newer firmwares lessen the chance of the bug at all that i have seen.
post #30 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy;14882754 
Just curious: are these issues specific to the SF-2281 controller or are the older SF-1200 and SF1500 controllers affected as well? Or do they have their own issues?

the 2281 right now. at least, as far I am aware.
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