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[NW] Apple calls out Microsoft for slow adoption of Windows 7, slants the facts - Page 8  

post #71 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html

The odd thing is, is this is merely a similarity between the different versions of office. This is a feature change, not an OS equivalent change. Lion is a simple update to existing features rather then a redesigned OS.

Building upon an OS and updating its feature set are entirely different. Would you consider Crysis 2 and Crysis 2 DX11 update to be 2 different games? No. Calling it for what it really is not what was considered here.
Mmm, no. By that method of thinking, Windows 7 and Vista were also service packs. You might reply saying that they had under-the-hood changes, and of course that is true, but did Microsoft list those? Or did they just give you the top ten new features which are almost all UI or similarly related. (The DX11 update to Crysis 2 was just that, an update. It made small changes to a small part of the game, but we're talking about changes to the entire OS. Improvements on all fronts.)

Those features are what Apple "advertises" but they don't tell you everything they've changed under-the-hood. The entire OS has been improved significantly.

I'm ultimately thinking I might write a single post and use that as a reference for all the misinformation going around. I can't keep up.
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post #72 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess94 View Post
You live in Aussie land where prices may be different. In North America Mac's are easily 2x more expensive than PC's for the same hardware.
Please do some research before you post your garbage. They are not that overpriced anymore. Some are cheaper than the parts.
post #73 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
Mmm, no. By that method of thinking, Windows 7 and Vista were also service packs. You might reply saying that they had under-the-hood changes, and of course that is true, but did Microsoft list those? Or did they just give you the top ten new features which are almost all UI or similarly related.
I was going to add this in, but thought you'd already be responding and miss it. This is what has been said long before its released. Windows 7, to its core, is merely an efficient code refresh of what Vista was suppose to be. Releasing it as a new OS was more geared towards the ignorant mass who considered Vista a failure rather then have Microsoft attempt to fix a broken record.

Heck, Vista nearly features EVERYTHING that 7 has. Vista drivers, for the most part, were compatible in Windows 7 beta.

Quote:
The DX11 update to Crysis 2 was just that, an update. It made small changes to a small part of the game, but we're talking about changes to the entire OS. Improvements on all fronts.
Actually, DX11 is an entirely new API, that although builds on certain features from DX10, it also consists of completely different rendering techniques down to its core. DX11 also requires hardware changes that go beyond that of software.

Multli-touch, extra buttons, application resizing, "Windows Equivalent" back up/system restore, are not OS changing features. These are existing features that have been updated. Heck, Windows did not need to make an entirely new OS when multi-touch came to the laptop mass. Looks like Apple sure did even though it existed in snow leopard.

Lion is merely a service pack. Much like Windows Vista to 7, much like Crysis 2 to its new API, just like game "expansion" packs, etc. There is no major redesign of the OS at its core.


SO anyways, when we consider this, I think you need to consider the adoption rate of Windows Service packs, which would be much greater in number then Lion adoption rates.
Edited by Domino - 10/4/11 at 3:46pm
post #74 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
I was going to add this in, but thought you'd already be responding and miss it. This is what has been said long before its released. Windows 7, to its core, is merely an efficient code refresh of what Vista was suppose to be. Releasing it as a new OS was more geared towards the ignorant mass who considered Vista a failure rather then have Microsoft attempt to fix a broken record.

Heck, Vista nearly features EVERYTHING that 7 has. Vista drivers, for the most part, were compatible in Windows 7 beta.
I meant, by that method of thinking, 7 is a service pack from Vista, and Vista was a service pack from XP. I'm well aware a lot changed in Vista, and I wouldn't call it a service pack but aside from a drastically different UI... what changed? Microsoft would have at most documented only a few key changes, just like Apple has.
Quote:
Actually, DX11 is an entirely new API, that although builds on certain features from DX10, it also consists of completely different rendering techniques down to its core.
It is, but it is an update to a small aspect of Crysis 2. It only affects graphics. Gameplay, storyline, HUD, it's all unchanged.
Quote:
Multli-touch, extra buttons, application resizing, "Windows Equivalent" back up/system restore, are not OS changing features. These are existing features that have been updated. Heck, Windows did not need to make an entirely new OS when multi-touch came to the laptop mass. Looks like Apple sure did even though it existed in snow leopard.

Lion is merely a service pack. Much like Windows Vista to 7, much like Crysis 2 to its new API, just like game "expansion" packs, etc. There is no major redesign of the OS at its core.
How do you know there is no major redesign though? Apple doesn't document those things. And what major redesign is necessary? They improved security significantly and added more advanced disk encryption, and added new features or improved the UI on most if not all stock apps.

As I've said before, there's over 3,000 new APIs in Lion for developers to make use in their apps. They didn't appear out of thin air.
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post #75 of 143
Mac users clearly have a lot more expendable cash then most average PC users (Obviously not OCN members, but the majority of PC users none the less...). So, not surprising that Mac users would be able to get the latest and greatest faster.
post #76 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papas View Post
To be honest. imacs are not overpriced anymore. the 27" is about $150-200 less then if you purchased the parts and built an exact rig. the smaller ones(24"/21") are only $100-$150 over parts, but its alot better than dell/hp.

the way he was distorting fact was funny. its almost like at the bottom of those graphs in tiny letters were this

"poll taken at apple stores on the 3rd Tuesday of the 2nd month following a lunar eclipse."

Here's where you're wrong. You're building desktop components, and the iMac uses laptop components.
post #77 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
I meant, by that method of thinking, 7 is a service pack from Vista, and Vista was a service pack from XP. I'm well aware a lot changed in Vista, and I wouldn't call it a service pack but aside from a drastically different UI... what changed? Microsoft would have at most documented only a few key changes, just like Apple has.
Only during public advertisement of the mass. Based on your logic, you don't even know if there were any changes.

There are definitely documentation of the major changes.

Quote:
It is, but it is an update to a small aspect of Crysis 2. It only affects graphics. Gameplay, storyline, HUD, it's all the same.
An API change is like an entire kernel change. DX11 requires PHYSICAL changes to your GPU in order to use such features, hence why DX10 and DX11 are radically different. And although DX9 had moments where one DX9 card was not able to handle updated DX9 features under playable settings, there was no significant changes between its existence to qualify it as a new API.

Heck, you even argue that there are new APIs added to Lion make it favor it being a new OS. Under such logic, you actually consider Crysis 2 DX11 to be a different game. I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Furthermore, you could argue there has been no gameplay, storyline, and or signficant HUD changes - consider equivalence to an OS environment - from Apple for the past few "OS"s.

Quote:
How do you know there is no major redesign though? Apple doesn't document those things. And what major redesign is necessary? They improved security significantly and added more advanced disk encryption, and added new features or improved the UI on most if not all stock apps.
When you install a new version of Norton, or any other protection software, it does not change your entire operating system. So no, not a significant change but rather an update.

Quote:
As I've said before, there's over 3,000 new APIs in Lion for developers to make use in their apps. They didn't appear out of thin air.
Was multi-touch and application resizing a new API? haha.
Edited by Domino - 10/4/11 at 4:05pm
post #78 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3lancer2006 View Post
Here's where you're wrong. You're building desktop components, and the iMac uses laptop components.
Heck, the IPS gives the same adobe colour spectrum as a mere <$200 TFT monitor.

Anyways, that's off-topic.
post #79 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3lancer2006 View Post
Here's where you're wrong. You're building desktop components, and the iMac uses laptop components.
No, it uses a mobile GPU and laptop RAM both of which are more expensive than their desktop equiv., the former significantly so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Only during public advertisement of the mass. Based on your logic, you don't even know if there were any changes.

There are definitely documentation of the major changes.
My logic? I don't see how that's relevant but you're right, I don't know. But nor do you, have you read the documentation of the major changes? I've not. Apple doesn't document things like that, they only announce new features which they think are relevant to the user.
Quote:
An API change is like an entire kernel change. DX11 requires PHYSICAL changes to your GPU in order to use such features, hence why DX10 and DX11 are radically different. Much like DX9 - DX10. And although DX9 had moments where one DX9 card was not able to handle updated DX9 features under playable settings, there was no significant changes between its existence to qualify it as a new API.
This isn't a good comparison, you can't compare improved graphics to improved UI or to new functionality. The former looks nice but overall doesn't affect anything, the latter allows for more convenient use of an application.
Quote:
Heck, you even argue that there are new APIs added to Lion make it favor it being a new OS. Under such logic, you actually consider Crysis 2 DX11 to be a different game. I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
No, I put that in favour of having under-the-hood changes. This is a bad comparison, as I said.
Quote:
Furthermore, you could argue there has been no gameplay, storyline, and or signficant HUD changes - consider equivalence to an OS environment - from Apple for the past few "OS"s.
Uhh, yes there has.
Quote:
When you install a new version of Norton, or any other protection software, it does not change your entire operating system. So no, not a significant change but rather an update.

Was multi-touch and application resizing a new API? haha.[/QUOTE]
Sure, that probably counts for at most twenty new APIs (realistically, I'd say more about five or ten). Only 2980 to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post
Heck, the IPS gives the same adobe colour spectrum as a mere <$200 TFT monitor.

Anyways, that's off-topic.
That's because the ACD is LED-backlit -- it's a trade off for the brightness. Try finding an LED-backlit TFT monitor which has good colour quality.

>>>>>

I'm officially writing my own Lion correction thread. I'm just going to link to it every time anyone ever says this, eventually they'll stop! Mwahaha
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post #80 of 143
apple is arrogant and manipulative
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