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[H] Does 80 PLUS really matter? - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15191895 
Why page 1 of that article is irrelevant:
The fact that some manufacturers may 'cheat' the system is not a problem with the certification. It's a problem with the system and enforcement thereof.

Why page 2 of that article is irrelevant:
They did a comparison of the power and money savings between each 80-plus cert using only hypothetical numbers (no real measured numbers). And they did not include in their comparison any non-80-plus power supplies. There is theoretically no limit to how inefficient a power supply could be without that cert. Which if mentioned, would drastically alter their recommendations.
It is good to note that there really isn't much difference between each different 80-plus cert. But any cert is likely a vast improvement over none at all.

The best part is the last paragraph of the last page, where they list several reasons why the certification IS relevant, then conclude by stating: "just remember we think 80 PLUS® is irrelevant."

It's written by HardOCP.

Also, they shouldn't be using "irrelevant". Last I knew it was frowned upon and you should use "not relevant".
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post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge;15191895 
Why page 1 of that article is irrelevant:
The fact that some manufacturers may 'cheat' the system is not a problem with the certification. It's a problem with the system and enforcement thereof.

Why page 2 of that article is irrelevant:
They did a comparison of the power and money savings between each 80-plus cert using only hypothetical numbers (no real measured numbers). And they did not include in their comparison any non-80-plus power supplies. There is theoretically no limit to how inefficient a power supply could be without that cert. Which if mentioned, would drastically alter their recommendations.
It is good to note that there really isn't much difference between each different 80-plus cert. But any cert is likely a vast improvement over none at all.

The best part is the last paragraph of the last page, where they list several reasons why the certification IS relevant, then conclude by stating: "just remember we think 80 PLUS® is irrelevant."

It's a problem when the certifier of the standard is doing nothing to make sure the standard is actually being adhered too. This standard exists with the intention of assisting consumers in making decisions about a power supply purchases. If they don't do more to make sure there certification isn't being abused it doesn't only make the certification irrelevant it makes it deceitful.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2;15191652 
Source

Looks like I'm buying bronze from now on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardOCP 
For instance, the Raidmax RX-1000AE and Topower TOP-1000WG have ECOS ID's of 1791.1 (Raidmax RX-1000AE and TOP-1000WG) whereas the Andyson AD-K1000AE has an ECOS ID of 1791. What this tells us is that the RX-1000AE and the TOP-1000WG are supposed to be the exact same power supplies as the AD-K1000AE, and all of these units were "certified" by ECOS as 80 PLUS® Gold power supplies based on the AD-K1000AE power supply. When we actually opened a retail RX-1000AE and the Topower TOP-1000WG what we found was that we have two completely different power supplies being sold as 80 PLUS® Gold rated Andyson AD-K1000AE units. One of these is clearly not the related to the AD-K1000AE at all, but is likely based on this unit and fails to meet 80 PLUS® Gold certification. The other is related to the AD-K1000AE, but still fails 80 PLUS® Gold certification. Call this case a special double whammy of fail.

It is happening at all levels.
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post #14 of 21
A couple of thoughts:
1. if there is a standard and no one to police the standard is it a real standard?

2. Would we just be better off then in checking with Consumer Reports and the UL listings instead?
    
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post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalker150;15192309 
A couple of thoughts:
1. if there is a standard and no one to police the standard is it a real standard?

2. Would we just be better off then in checking with Consumer Reports and the UL listings instead?

Worthwhile companies enforce themselves. Corsair markets one of their units as 80+ Bronze Cert while the certification website listed them as 80+ Silver. Of course, you can transfer your argument to almost every single spec of a power supply. It's easy to find a 1000W power supply that can't even provide half of the power it's advertising, just look in the <$50 range. Hell, even legit companies sometimes put power supplies that don't even meet ATX spec. I think the only thing that comes as close to that level of misinformation is with fans where even good companies lie about that.

Honestly, everything about PSUs requires non-sponsored third-party reviews like JonnyGuru and Oklahoma Wolf.
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post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalker150;15192309 
2. Would we just be better off then in checking with Consumer Reports and the UL listings instead?
I didn't think CR did PSUs. UL (I think) doesn't do these kind of tests, they are checking for safety related things, not power efficiency.
    
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post #17 of 21
Seasonic, SilverStone, and Corsair are the only PSUs I would ever touch before this, and this just confirms my judgement, IMO.

But back in 2006 I bought an Aspire 600w(Apevia now) because it had LEDs and a cool looking grill. Well that PSU demolished a FX-57 and Abit A8 SLI that was hard worked for. It was only after that that I researched, and realized, that only quality, third-party vetted PSUs were what I was going to get. Never have had a PSU problem again.
    
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post #18 of 21
Where is Phaedrus when you need him. Phaedrus!grouphug.gif
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post #19 of 21
Interesting... I just bought this X760 too lol
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post #20 of 21
That was a very interesting read. I'm not sure if I'm correct with my calculations...but it seems that an 80Plus Platinum power supply wouldn't make much of a difference in efficiency cost than a regular 80Plus power supply. I guess my decision of looking into a more efficient power supply just got thrown out the window. I hope my Corsair HX1000 will continue to suffice for years to come since the only thing I have to worry about now is the aging capacitors.
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