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AMD CPU's MAX TEMPS! - Page 31

post #301 of 408
Quote

"Tcase is the temperature of the processor's metal case or heatspreader (that is in contact with base of cooler).

Tjunction or core temp is the temperature of the processor core. And for multi-cores, each core usually has an individual sensor so that when you run monitoring softwares like Speedfan, Core Temp or Real Temp, you will get multiple readings. Core temperature limit is typically 105°C. Processor and motherboard will usually initiate auto-shutdown if Tjunction limit is ever approached.

Maximum Tcase limit is much lower than the Tjunction limit"
    
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post #302 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Hotepp View Post

Silly me, I would have thought that direction from the company who made the chip would be the one to follow.

Problem is, sources within AMD are saying conflicting things about the max temps. Here Alex Cromwell, Senior Technology Director, AMD claims Core temp is correct to monitor.

Right now I put my trust in the most accepted overclock.net guide on this issue. Of course, I can't say that this is definitively right, there is good evidence for both TCase and TCTL being right.
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post #303 of 408
i dont understand its all silicon why dont they all have the max safe temp .back in the day we used to say if its stable its at safe temps
post #304 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by KinguBah View Post

Problem is, sources within AMD are saying conflicting things about the max temps. Here Alex Cromwell, Senior Technology Director, AMD claims Core temp is correct to monitor.
Right now I put my trust in the most accepted overclock.net guide on this issue. Of course, I can't say that this is definitively right, there is good evidence for both TCase and TCTL being right.

I'm starting to see where the confusion lies. I see people say "CPU Temp" and then refer to it as the sensor on the CPU socket. TCase however is the sensor on the die itself that gives the temperature at the heat spreader (as all information available states) which is why all of AMD technical documents list Tcase as the max temperature. From everything that I've been able to dig up CPUTIN = Tcase and "core temps" (as in the individual core temp readings on HWmontor etc) = Tjunction.

Edit - I just emailed CPUID and asked what they are using to read the values "CPUTIN" and individual core temps just to make sure. I'll post the reply here if/when I get it.
Edited by Bubba Hotepp - 5/12/12 at 11:13pm
    
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post #305 of 408
Thread Starter 
BUMP
    
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post #306 of 408
Still waiting for a response from cpuid. If I don't hear anything I'll add it to the next email response to AMD tech support.
    
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post #307 of 408
Y U Bring back Zombie thread?? It's very simple..keep the cores below 55c and it should be OK
YMMV ..but yeah..55c..This isn't rocket science.
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post #308 of 408
Hello Everyone ! I've been searching in many AMD datasheets and found very precious information about AMD CPU's temperature.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY

1. This information has been taken from 'Revision Guide for AMD Family 10h Processors' datasheet.
278
Note:- Errata = A mistake in printed matter resulting from mechanical failures of some kind (from general english dictionary smile.gif )



2. Continue with 'Revision Guide for AMD Family 10h Processors' datasheet mentioning Revision Numbers of different different AMD family 10h CPUs.
330



3. This contains 'Cross-Reference of Product Revision to Errata' in 'Revision Guide for AMD Family 10h Processors'.
375

People who have been thinking/believing that temperature sensor in Thuban and some Quad Core Phenom CPU are faulty are now absolutely wrong.

As you can clearly see that faulty temperature sensor had already been fixed in CPUs which have revision no ''PH-E0' (All Thuban CPUs, Zosma Phenom II X4 E0 CPUs and One Zosma Athlon II X4 640 revision E0 CPU) thumb.gif


If you have any objection believing on me, please download this datasheet and see by yourself:
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/41322_10h_Rev_Gd.pdf

Edited by sumitlian - 5/17/12 at 9:16am
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post #309 of 408
Bubba Hotepp what have I told you? Its hopeless man. This post will never stop.biggrin.gif:D
post #310 of 408
Just got this today from AMD Tech Support. Note what he says about Tcase (it is NOT the temperature taken from a diode on the socket).





From: TECH.SUPPORT@AMD.COM
Sent: Wed 5/16/12 8:09 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com

Dear Stephen,

Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200488157]} has been reviewed and updated.

Response and Service Request History:

It's quite alright, this is a question that I can't really find a specific answer to as well. Obviously software can tweak the numbers a bit (Catalyst vs HWMonitor vs CoreTemp), since they're just interpreting the BIOS info, which is the most accurate, but I can't seem to find any documentation or source code or manuals or ANYTHING from HWMonitor that shows where they determine CPUTIN. All I've seen are people noting errors in HWMonitor specifically, but obviously I can't confirm these issues. The HWMonitor forums seem to imply that it is based on TCase, but all I can confirm is that it's taking a value from the board and reporting it, but the introduction of a 3rd party really does temper the values a little bit, and they don't seem to actually say which one they are using (TJ, TCase, etc).

From what I can figure out, each software really does their own thing (like CoreTemp uses TJ for Intel processors and TCase for AMDs). I know that this didn't really help, all I can say for sure is that HWMonitor doesn't have available documentation on where they get their info, but the majority of software will just rely on the board to give them info, as they won't have access to those numbers directly, but interpretation and rounding errors and such can yield slightly skewed results.

Either way, TCase is supposed to be the physical temperature of the inside-top of the CPU, while core temperatures most often refer to CPU-NB temperatures (for AMD processors at least), or Tjunction (for either brand of processor), depending on the software. But obviously each software developer can do what they want with their information, and define/interpret it in different ways. That's part of the joy of open-sourced software, 10 versions that do the same thing to sometimes-contradictory results. I know that this really didn't answer the question, but it's all that I am able to get out of HWMonitor, and what info we have on processors in general over here.

Feel free to ask more questions, having people informed like you, who are willing to pass this information on (after interpreting and translating it into something that resembles a coherent thought) makes life easier for all of us, and helps to show people that we're more than just a manufacturer of processors and GPUs, but a company that wants to help, no matter the question or problem. .

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

This email is a direct result of your contact with AMD Global Customer Care and not part of a campaign. There is no need to unsubscribe to this email as you will only be contacted again if you directly request another service from AMD Global Customer Care.

The contents of this message are provided for informational purposes only. AMD makes no representation or warranties with respect to the accuracy of the contents of the information provided, and reserves the right to change such information at any time, with or without notice.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________


Original Text


From: xxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
To: tech.support@amd.com

Sent: 05/15/12 16:32:02

Subject: RE: AMD Service Notice:{ticketno:[8200488157]}



I apologize for going back to the temperature question again but now a new issue has popped up. Now that you've clarified that the maximum safe operating temp listed is the Tcase temperature, the confusion lies in what reading shows Tcase. I was under the impression that in a program like HWmonitor, CPUTIN = Tcase however more and more people are referring to Tcase as the "core temps" that are listed in programs like HWmonitor.




This is what I just sent as a reply so I'll post the response when I get it:



Stephen (xxxxxxxx@hotmail.com)

Sent: Wed 5/16/12 10:44 AM

To: tech.support@amd.com


I'll sum up what I've learned and deduced and tell me if it's makes sense and/or is correct. As you've stated the Tcase is a singular temperature taken at the top of the CPU (I'm assuming from a diode at the top of the die where it makes contact with the IHS?). What seems to me as a dead giveaway that Tcase is not being used by programs like HWmonitor is that they list seperate values for each of the cores that can be the same but usually differ from each other (usually by 1-3C). Are individual "core" temperatures taken from a diode within each core? Or is it mathmatically based off of something like Tjunction to give a "guesstimate" for each core? But clearly the standard assumption I see that says quote: "CPU Temp = Tjunction or true Junction Temperature (This reading is taken from the sensor fixed in CPU socket on Motherboard.)" is clearly wrong. I was also under the assumption that motherboards didn't use a "socket" diode anymore as well. Does all of that make sense?
Edited by Bubba Hotepp - 5/16/12 at 10:47am
    
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