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Cheapest mobo to get past 5Ghz on i7-2600k? - Page 2

post #11 of 34
thank you god, its like everyone is taking drugs today or something.
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post #12 of 34
Hi, there's a limit on the multipler on SB 2600k of only 57X. And a normal non cherry picked 2600k would need a phase change to reach it!!
post #13 of 34
may be a little off topic, but can someone point me in the direction of some reading material about this "CPU hard wall" I've never heard of it and a quick google search didn't really give any useful results. Is it anything like a FSB hole?
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post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaidynM View Post
I'd originally picked out an ASUS Maximus Extreme-Z for my new SB build in hope that I'd be able to get past 6Ghz. Having never overclocked before, I'm not entirely sure how far that board could get. From this list of motherboards, what would be the cheapest board that would allow me to get past 6Ghz and if possible, keep a stable overclock of 5Ghz.

I'll be using a Corsair H100 cooler. Also, please do tell me if I'm dreaming and this is impossible. This would definitely save me from frying my computer.

Thanks in advance,
Jaidyn
Cheap and 6 GHz don't exactly go hand in hand.

Maximus IV Extreme is one of the few boards that might be capable of 6 GHz with a truly golden chip. But you would need either Liquid Helium, Liquid Nitrogen, or Phase-Change cooling in addition to that golden chip to even have a chance of hitting 6 GHz.
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post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Morpheus View Post
Hi, there's a limit on the multipler on SB 2600k of only 57X. And a normal non cherry picked 2600k would need a phase change to reach it!!
check out the ASUS maximus 4 extreme and UD7, both have modified BIOS to do 59X check some of the HWbot submissions.
21.33 is the max multiplier for memory, but asus has 22x and 24x
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post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bane-o View Post
may be a little off topic, but can someone point me in the direction of some reading material about this "CPU hard wall" I've never heard of it and a quick google search didn't really give any useful results. Is it anything like a FSB hole?
there are theories on why it exists, when i was at IDF, i attended Intel's "OC class" there were interesting questions asked by a few people.

but after the class i asked about CPU PLL Overvoltage from one of the engineers who works on overclocking, yea they really have OC engineers, that is probably why CPU PLL overvoltage exists, and why SB OCes so freely.

Anyways CPU PLL overvoltage is one of the BIOS settings, that is usually hidden, and disabled. When disabled it "clips" an internally derived voltage that powers the CPU PLL. So the motherboard uses a linear regulator, or just a simple step down converter to push 1.8v stock into the CPU(and the user can change this voltage), it along with the CPU Voltage, iGP voltage, and system agent and qpi/vtt voltage are the major voltages the board provides the CPU. From there the CPU has a power control unit, the PCU, this controls power to different segments using the voltage supplied to the CPU as well as uses TDp and TDC to limit overclocking(but board makers get around this).

Now the CPU have a few PLL(phase lock loop) they produce frequencies like a clock generator, now internally that 1.8v might only have 60mv fed to the PLL that controls the clocks for the CPu frequencies bins, that 1.8v is clipped down to 60mv for that specific PLL, and then that allows that 1.8v to then also be used for another voltage as well totally separate from the PLL which CPU PLL overvoltage affects. Well with the CPU PLL over-voltage enabled it could potentially "clip" less of that voltage and produce 70mv or 65mv extra to the CPU's internal PLL. That is why no one found that when CPu PLL Over-voltage is enabled, and CPu PLL voltage is increased to the CPU, that it doesn't help OC, instead in many cases lowering CPU PLL helps. Maybe that voltage is used for a bunch of different PLLs, and the CPU PLL voltage the motherboard provides and you can control has a great impact over the amount of cold the CPU can take, and it has for many generations of intel CPUs. Thus from that 1.8v being used for different internally derived voltages.

The Engineer said that they found that with that setting enabled the SB CPUs had 4-5X multipliers higher than with it disabled, and that they are constantly looking for more settings like that, that might be helpful to OC. That is why when the board makers found out about CPU PLL Overvoltage right before launch, they were all about to get it into their BIOSes overnight, literally. That is because it was a setting already there, just hidden b/c it was thought there was no use. Its also no coincidence that Intel boards had it first. The Engineer also said that over time that setting set to enable can have an impact like increasing the CPU voltage.

So anyways they have artificially limited the max CPU multipliers, as the potential of the CPU is huge, you see how it OCes on air, BD OCes about the same on air, and it just set a WR. But intel uses a different silicon than AMD, its manufacturing is different, that is why AMD doesn't really have too many cold issues, but intel has many. Sandy Bridge is not alone. you can run Sb at -150C, but in most cases the CPu wont scale lower than -20, and that hurts it potential.

Then you have CPUs, that no matter what you do cannot hit over 5.5ghz or eve 5.2ghz, no matter the temp, no matter the voltage. In that case there is an artificial wall, either by the way they bin the Sb CPU, or by some factory settings/manufacturing tolerances. No one has hit the max MHZ that is possible with 59x and max BLCk of even 104mhz(most ppl can get more BLCk, like even up to 110 in many cases), no one has hit over 6050mhz. So maybe there are setting like CPU PLL Overvoltage that are still set to disable, and on some processors the variation of the clipping varies due to tolerances.

but then that theory can be debunked by the fact that even if the CPU is in the same batch, they OC totally differently, its totally random. Intel will never come out and say hey will set the max multiplier/frequency for each CPU randomly, and we are doing it to limit its OC potential, they would never do such a thing. Why? it would kill a huge market, so many companies build boards for OC, make memory for OC, make coolers for OC, make power supplies for OC, put up OC events, marketing, there is such a huge market, for the two largest motherboard makers to release boards specially designed for overclocking, and for those with much less resources to follow.

There were two ways one could tell the OC potential of a CPU, well really 3 ways:
#1 the VID, the stock voltage that is set at the factory, the lower the better
#2 the batch, once you know one CPU OCes that high, the others int eh same batch will do the same, that is why you see people list batch numbers when selling a i7 900 series CPU or similar gen, and you don't see it anymore really with SB.
#3 the TDP, now CPUs with lower TDP will OC higher with normal cooler, water or air. BUT ES CPUs have NO SET TDP, and that is why ES CPUs of previous Gens OC SO MUCH higher than retails in many cases. TDp is a variant of the leakage of the transistors in many cases, but other variables as well. Usually on retail CPus it is locked, at like 95W for example. The leakier a transistor the higher its potential frequency, that is how NVIDIA decreased the TDp from the GTX 400 to GTX 500 series, the rearranged the higher and low leakage transistors, and then added a third one with mid leakage. On an unlocked ES CPU, the TDp could be something like 300W on like a i7 990x, of course that is not always what makes it a great OCer, but ti is why most ES OC higher than retail.

Now Sandy Bridge kills #1 and #2, they just don't apply, and #3 really doesn't either, ES SB CPUs are bull****, and junk at most. maybe the whole issue is that Intel is trying to do away with ES CPUs winning WRs, that is probably the case with #3 and CPU PLL Overvoltage, because even after they found the settings, they said no ES CPU D1 stepping, which are the majority of ES LGA1155 chips can use the setting, you can't even boot into windows with it set on with an ES D1 stepper.

Intel is doing this more or less, or they radically changed something in the architecture that cannot operate higher than 6ghz, which I don't get. Most say its because of the 100mhz bus on everything, but with SBe those busses are now separated again, and SBe isn't OCing as high as many had hoped.

ivy bridge will be a bit different, they raised the max multi to 63x, so we should see boards with 65X potentially. Bottom line, you cannot predict how well any SB CPU will oC only 3 out of thousands have hit 6ghz, yet SB still owns most platforms in many benchmarks.
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post #17 of 34
Thread Starter 
LOL, okay. I get it, 6.0Ghz is near impossible and 5Ghz is almost as hard. But which motherboard should I pick? This list doesn't really make The ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z look too good. To keep a stable overclock of say, 4.5 Ghz, what's the cheapest board I need? Also, if possible, it would be good if the board can just hit 5Ghz for a couple of screenies.
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post #18 of 34
If you look at reviews of various Z68 motherboards from various sources, you will see that the Maximus IV boards (Extreme-Z and GENE-Z) consistently get the highest overclocks of all Z68 boards. There are only a few other boards that are in the same league, such as the Gigabyte UD7.


Basically...if you have the money and you want the top Z68 board out there for heavy overclocking, the Maximus IV Extreme-Z is one of the best boards you can buy today.

Btw, 5 GHz 24/7 is certainly possible if you have a good chip. An average 2600K might require 1.5V to do it stably 24/7, but a good chip may only need 1.45 or even 1.4V.
Edited by 996gt2 - 10/8/11 at 1:11pm
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post #19 of 34
Oo
    
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post #20 of 34
the gene-z and the extreme-z have TOTALLY different power circuitry. Let me explain for you since I do own a gene-z, and i was expecting the CopperMOSFETs, and Proadlizer capcitor, and Chil drivers, and a straight 8 phase pwm, but that isn't what you get.

First since ASUS has exclusivity with a 8-phase Chil VRM, you do get that, but since that PWm is only a 7+1 phase PWM, i fyou want to use that +1 phase you can't use 8 true phases just for CPU, you need another PWM. Anyways so 4 phases from that 8 phse PWm are used for the CPU cores, each phse goes to a power module, the power module has a phase doubler(w/frequency divider= maxPWM freq of 550khz compared to 1.X mhz on M4E) with two drivers in one tiny IC. So that allows them to double 4 phases into 8. Then the M4Gz uses the same MOSFETs, 3 actually per phases, just a copy of the P8P67-Deluxe which has 16 phases made of 3 MOSFETs per phase, TranchMOS to be exact, and the M4Gz uses the same amount and type per phase but only 8. Two lowside and one highside FET.

Next we move onto the inductors:
yes they are the same, max 28A per phase, but extreme low DCR and ripple current. They are very nice inductors.

The output capacitors on the M4E costs a lot, that NEC Proadlizer polymer capacitor is so nice, but the M4Gz doesn't have it.

For the amount you spend on the M4Gz you get what you pay for, the M4E has a totally different VRM, even if ASUS wants you to think they are the same because of the identical inductors.
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Intel 5960X Extreme Edition @ 4.5GHz Always Changing VisonTek R9 290 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4 @ 3200MHz 
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