Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PCG]Carmack pissed about RAGE issues, but admits id doesn’t see PC as “leading” ...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PCG]Carmack pissed about RAGE issues, but admits id doesn’t see PC as “leading” ... - Page 18  

post #171 of 192
Defending this type of attitude towards our platform will not get us anywhere. Think of buying, say, a new car. On the drive home you notice it barely runs. But instead of returning to the dealership, you take it home and modify/tweak it yourself in hopes to fix the issues? Sound like something you would do? Not likely. If I buy a game, it needs to be finished and tested before I buy it. The more we defend these types of issues, the more we will have to deal with devs making us, their customers, fix things they couldn't be bothered with.
post #172 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron_Henderson View Post
The more we defend these types of issues, the more we will have to deal with devs making us, their customers, fix things they couldn't be bothered with.
I agree with that in principle, as long as the word 'devs' is replaced with those that really make the decisions.
post #173 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post
Oh, and that's another developer to add to the 'do-not-buy' list.
And people wonder why PC support is diminishing..

RAGE runs and looks excellent on my PC with the latest ATI beta drivers, worth every dollar spent.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 EVGA X58 SLI LE XFX Radeon 6950 G.Skill DDR3 6GB Kit 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Western Digital 640GB Black LiteOn 20X DVD RW Prolimatech Megahalems  Windows 7 Professional X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ V2420H Razer Lycosa Corsair TX750 Coolermaster HAF 932 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Microsoft SideWinder X8 Razer eXact Mat Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Creative I-Trigue 3400 2.1 Speaker System 
Audio
Roccat Kave Headset 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 EVGA X58 SLI LE XFX Radeon 6950 G.Skill DDR3 6GB Kit 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Western Digital 640GB Black LiteOn 20X DVD RW Prolimatech Megahalems  Windows 7 Professional X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ V2420H Razer Lycosa Corsair TX750 Coolermaster HAF 932 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Microsoft SideWinder X8 Razer eXact Mat Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Creative I-Trigue 3400 2.1 Speaker System 
Audio
Roccat Kave Headset 
  hide details  
post #174 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post
Agreed.

Plenty of devs have shown if you treat the platform well you will be rewarded ( CD Projekt, indie devs, bethesda, etc )

You have to invest money in order to make money. Whodathunkit?!
What a load of crap you spout.

Rage PC sales = under 80,000
Rage 360 sales = over 550,000
Rage PS3 sales = under 350,000

You can bury your head in the sand and whine all you want, but the fact is you can't moan or preach to us about how "rewarding" developing for the PC is when The Witcher 2, with all its rave reviews for the PC, got a measly 600K sales on the platform they invested the vast majority of their time on. Freaking indie games get more sales than that. PC is pretty much a dead end platform for AAA titles from all except the most big-budget titles from publishers with the deepest pockets, like Activision, Rockstar and EA. Carmack and everyone else at id saw this coming, regardless of how much they love the PC as a platform; anybody else with some common sense, in Carmack's shoes, would do the same thing.

If the PC could get half the sales of ONE console, I wouldn't mind you moaning/demanding platform exclusive updates, but don't even try and refer to yourself as a majority or the "premium" customer because you're NOT in any way; you should be happy they are at least working on fixes for the PC issues when they could easily follow Crapstar/EA and abandon support for it completely. For stupid comments like the one you posted, I wouldn't be surprised if they dumped the PC as a viable platform with future releases, and unfortunately I wouldn't blame them either.

You need to learn the lesson here: don't pre-order AAA multiplatform titles on PC, especially RPGs/sandbox games, because they take time and multiple patches to get right.
Edited by Am* - 10/21/11 at 9:51am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Celeron G530 Haven't decided yet. GTX 460 768MB 4GB Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung F3 1TB (SSD coming later) XP/Windows 7 Same old... Yet to decide. 
Case
Fractal Design Define R3 
  hide details  
post #175 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
What a load of crap you spout.

Rage PC sales = under 80,000
Rage 360 sales = over 550,000
Rage PS3 sales = under 350,000

You can bury your head in the sand and whine all you want, but the fact is you can't moan or preach to us about how "rewarding" developing for the PC is when The Witcher 2, with all its rave reviews for the PC, got a measly 600K sales on the platform they invested the vast majority of their time on. Freaking indie games get more sales than that. PC is pretty much a dead end platform for AAA titles from all except the most big-budget titles from publishers with the deepest pockets, like Activision, Rockstar and EA. Carmack and everyone else at id saw this coming, regardless of how much they love the PC as a platform; anybody else with some common sense, in Carmack's shoes, would do the same thing.

If the PC could get half the sales of ONE console, I wouldn't mind you moaning/demanding platform exclusive updates, but don't even try and refer to yourself as a majority or the "premium" customer because you're NOT in any way; you should be happy they are at least working on fixes for the PC issues when they could easily follow Crapstar/EA and abandon support for it completely. For stupid comments like the one you posted, I wouldn't be surprised if they dumped the PC as a viable platform with future releases, and unfortunately I wouldn't blame them either.

You need to learn the lesson here: don't pre-order AAA multiplatform titles on PC, especially RPGs/sandbox games, because they take time and multiple patches to get right.
This is crap. We ARE the premium gamer, because we spend more, know more, can do more, etc, etc, with our games. No one has ever said that we are the "biggest" customer, and we're not. Nor were we when Doom or Quake came out. Nintendo was. Playstation was. Nothing has changed, except for the millions MORE pc gamers than were out here 10-12 years ago. We were big enough for AAA title R&D then, and we sure as hell are now. We don't want sloppy seconds, we want games developed for the cutting edge of technology, like we got 10 years ago. NOTHING has changed, aside from dev greed, and thinking that, "We just can't sell to every pc gamer, we have to sell to every platform." That's complete bs. We may be a niche market, but we are a market, nonetheless. Quit trying to justify dev profits/bonuses by telling us to make due with ports and second rate titles. I ain't buyin' it. If Carmack wanted to make more money, maybe he should release a game every couple of years, instead of stalling and stalling and stalling........
Edited by Jayce1971 - 10/21/11 at 10:04am
The Nest
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ph II X4 BE 980 @ 4.2Ghz Foxconn Destroyer EVGA GTX 780 SC (4) 2 Gb stix G.Skill DDR2 1066 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Mushkin Chronos 120Gb SSD, Seagate 320Gb; 1Tb(ext) LightScribe DVDRW Corsair H70 -w- 2 Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000 fans p... Windows 7 64x 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer 21.5" LCD Razor Blackwidow Ultimate Mushkin Joule 1000W Azza Solano 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech laser Vat ees theese "mouse pad" jou speek of? Tampo... Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX 
  hide details  
The Nest
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ph II X4 BE 980 @ 4.2Ghz Foxconn Destroyer EVGA GTX 780 SC (4) 2 Gb stix G.Skill DDR2 1066 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Mushkin Chronos 120Gb SSD, Seagate 320Gb; 1Tb(ext) LightScribe DVDRW Corsair H70 -w- 2 Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000 fans p... Windows 7 64x 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer 21.5" LCD Razor Blackwidow Ultimate Mushkin Joule 1000W Azza Solano 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech laser Vat ees theese "mouse pad" jou speek of? Tampo... Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX 
  hide details  
post #176 of 192
if u releasing it on a console, do it good on all of them, it's not like if u do good on console u are not allow to do a good pc version.

like dirt2 for DS is god awful but it plays without problems anyways. whatever it is, make it playable/enjoyable, otherwise, what IS THE POINT OF RELEASING IT? to grab a few bucks ?
Ultimate
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 ASUS Radeon HD6850 DirectCU 4x4GB Kingston DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveOSPower
1x 120GB Intel 320 Series SSD + 4x 1TB SATA Windows 8 Pro 64bit CM 750W 
  hide details  
Ultimate
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 ASUS Radeon HD6850 DirectCU 4x4GB Kingston DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveOSPower
1x 120GB Intel 320 Series SSD + 4x 1TB SATA Windows 8 Pro 64bit CM 750W 
  hide details  
post #177 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtickner1 View Post
And people wonder why PC support is diminishing..
Pretty sure id's support of the PC platform was gone long before Yvese said it was another dev he wouldn't buy from. That's id's problem - stop trying to shift blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayce1971 View Post
No one has ever said that we are the "biggest" customer, and we're not.
Tell that to Dice. They sold more copies of BFBC2 on PC than the consoles, maybe even if you combined them.

Anyway, not sure how anything of value was lost. id is irrelevant these days in my opinion, and I don't know anyone that even purchased "RAGE" - although with all the problems, at least they got the title correct.

Edit: like to point out I agree with pretty much the rest of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleC View Post
what IS THE POINT OF RELEASING IT? to grab a few bucks ?
Yep.
Edited by pursuinginsanity - 10/21/11 at 10:21am
Why upgrade?
(14 items)
 
Why overclock?!
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 760 ASUS 55i Sabertooth EVGA 960 4GB 8gb 1600mhz Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
120gb Intel 320 (OS) 500gb Samsung 850 Evo Win 7 64 Viewsonic VX2250-Wm 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic G 550w Gold Lancool PC-K9B Logitech G5 X-Fi Titanium/AT-H700 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4690k Asus Z97 Sabertooth mk2 EVGA 970 8gb Kingston 1833mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
128GB Samsung 830 500GB Samsung 840 Evo allota fans but quiet! Win 7 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Rev. A01 Mechanical w/ Cherry Blues NZXT Hale 650w NZXT Phantom - white 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Anker CG100 Steelseries 9HD Sennheiser HD555 
  hide details  
Why upgrade?
(14 items)
 
Why overclock?!
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 760 ASUS 55i Sabertooth EVGA 960 4GB 8gb 1600mhz Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
120gb Intel 320 (OS) 500gb Samsung 850 Evo Win 7 64 Viewsonic VX2250-Wm 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic G 550w Gold Lancool PC-K9B Logitech G5 X-Fi Titanium/AT-H700 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 4690k Asus Z97 Sabertooth mk2 EVGA 970 8gb Kingston 1833mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
128GB Samsung 830 500GB Samsung 840 Evo allota fans but quiet! Win 7 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2311H Rev. A01 Mechanical w/ Cherry Blues NZXT Hale 650w NZXT Phantom - white 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Anker CG100 Steelseries 9HD Sennheiser HD555 
  hide details  
post #178 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayce1971 View Post
This is crap. We ARE the premium gamer, because we spend more, know more, can do more, etc, etc, with our games. No one has ever said that we are the "biggest" customer, and we're not. Nor were we when Doom or Quake came out. Nintendo was. Playstation was. Nothing has changed, except for the millions MORE pc gamers than were out here 10-12 years ago. We were big enough for AAA title R&D then, and we sure as hell are now. We don't want sloppy seconds, we want games developed for the cutting edge of technology, like we got 10 years ago. NOTHING has changed, aside from dev greed, and thinking that, "We just can't sell to every pc gamer, we have to sell to every platform." That's complete bs. We may be a niche market, but we are a market, nonetheless. Quit trying to justify dev profits/bonuses by telling us to make due with ports and second rate titles. I ain't buyin' it. If Carmack wanted to make more money, maybe he should release a game every couple of years, instead of stalling and stalling and stalling........
Times have changed, before the current gen consoles it was not very easy for a developer to develop a game for both PC and consoles and have it look and run similarly on both.

Now that developers can develop the game they wanted, and get it to 10x as many customers by shipping it on consoles it means that PC development is secondary. PC gamers over the last 5 years have had trouble coming to terms with this, they used to get the best titles, and the consoles sometimes never saw those titles come to them. Now about 90% of the major developers are targeting consoles as the lead platforms. The PC-focused games that I see remaining for now are MMOs and RTS games, those are not nearly as easy to pull of on a console given the limitations of the networking and the controls, but if the next-gen consoles come with keyboard and mouse, PC games could lose out even more.
Edited by lordikon - 10/22/11 at 7:32am
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
Foldatron
(17 items)
 
Mat
(10 items)
 
Work iMac
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 950 EVGA x58 3-way SLI EVGA GTX 660ti GTX 275 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3x2GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 80GB Intel X25-M SSD 2TB WD Black 150GB WD Raptor 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
2x 150GB WD V-raptor in RAID0 Win7 Home 64-bit OEM 55" LED 120hz 1080p Vizio MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 
PowerCase
750W PC P&C Silencer CoolerMaster 690 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core i5 2500S AMD 6770M 8GB (2x4GB) at 1333Mhz 1TB, 7200 rpm 
Optical DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
LG 8X Dual-Layer "SuperDrive" OS X Lion 27" iMac screen Mac wireless keyboard 
Mouse
Mac wireless mouse 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-2600K AMD 6970M 1GB 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3 1TB 7200rpm 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
256GB SSD 8x DL "SuperDrive" OS X 10.7 Lion 27" 2560x1440 iMac display 
Monitor
27" Apple thunderbolt display 
  hide details  
post #179 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am* View Post
What a load of crap you spout.

Rage PC sales = under 80,000
Rage 360 sales = over 550,000
Rage PS3 sales = under 350,000

PC is pretty much a dead end platform for AAA titles from all except the most big-budget titles from publishers with the deepest pockets, like Activision, Rockstar and EA.

You need to learn the lesson here: don't pre-order AAA multiplatform titles on PC, especially RPGs/sandbox games, because they take time and multiple patches to get right.

I would actually like to see the source of where you got the sales of RAGE on each platform.
Also, as to your ignorant comment that PC gaming is dead for AAA titles and publishers; what about THQ, Square Enix, Valve, etc and their development teams? They may not be going, "PC gaming, let's focus everything on that platform!" But THQ and Square Enix have their eyes on PC gaming still, and AAA titles like Metro 2033/Just Cause 2 have noticeable differences from the console versions.
Devon-Pc
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x955 MSi 870-G45 Gigabyte 6950 1gb (Tri-Fan Cooling) 12gb DDR3 1600MHz (7-8-7-24) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1.2tb 7200RPM (3 HDD's) Windows 7 Ultimate ASUS VE276Q (1920x1080p) Razer Lycosa (Non-mirrored) 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 650W Rosewill Wind Knight Fierce 5000 DPI Laser Gaming Mouse v. 2 
  hide details  
Devon-Pc
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II x955 MSi 870-G45 Gigabyte 6950 1gb (Tri-Fan Cooling) 12gb DDR3 1600MHz (7-8-7-24) 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
1.2tb 7200RPM (3 HDD's) Windows 7 Ultimate ASUS VE276Q (1920x1080p) Razer Lycosa (Non-mirrored) 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair 650W Rosewill Wind Knight Fierce 5000 DPI Laser Gaming Mouse v. 2 
  hide details  
post #180 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayce1971 View Post
This is crap. We ARE the premium gamer, because we spend more, know more, can do more, etc, etc, with our games. .
You spend more because a PC has the ability to perform countless more functions than a console. They are not designed to run games and only games.

And to my understanding, you think you know more than someone with a console purely because you own a PC? Whatever mate, some of the elitist arrogance on this forum is bewildering. +10 Lego and intelligence points to you buddy because you slapped a PC together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post
Pretty sure id's support of the PC platform was gone long before Yvese said it was another dev he wouldn't buy from. That's id's problem - stop trying to shift blame..
You are correct, their PC support is long gone, that's why RAGE is sitting in my Steam library, how could I have been so wrong

Okay Pursuinginsanity, I have a question for you;

RAGE runs butter smooth, looks amazing, and I am enjoying the hell out of it. After factoring in these 3 things why should I have not supported them? Realistically answer that for me please. Because it seems you think that I should not have given them any of my support because apparently they no longer support the PC.

There are people like this, sitting up-in-arms and moaning on forums about how developers are abandoning the PC while people are refusing to purchase games for reasons that are absurd.

'HOLY CRAP THIS IS RAGE AND IT'S NOT RUNNING AT 80FPS, HOLY CRAP I GOT SOME TEXTURE POP-IN FOR AN ENTIRE SECOND. I AM NOT BUYING THIS PILE OF CONSOLE FILTH. SCREW YOU ID, SCREW YOU FOREVER. I AM JUST GOING TO PIRATE THIS, SUCKED IN!'

I think you'll find this is the attitude that is ruining PC gaming. I've been PC gaming for many years and I've had to tweak and screw around with a lot of games to get them to work well, it comes with the territory if you ask me.

Deal with it.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 EVGA X58 SLI LE XFX Radeon 6950 G.Skill DDR3 6GB Kit 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Western Digital 640GB Black LiteOn 20X DVD RW Prolimatech Megahalems  Windows 7 Professional X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ V2420H Razer Lycosa Corsair TX750 Coolermaster HAF 932 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Microsoft SideWinder X8 Razer eXact Mat Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Creative I-Trigue 3400 2.1 Speaker System 
Audio
Roccat Kave Headset 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 EVGA X58 SLI LE XFX Radeon 6950 G.Skill DDR3 6GB Kit 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x Western Digital 640GB Black LiteOn 20X DVD RW Prolimatech Megahalems  Windows 7 Professional X64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ V2420H Razer Lycosa Corsair TX750 Coolermaster HAF 932 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Microsoft SideWinder X8 Razer eXact Mat Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Creative I-Trigue 3400 2.1 Speaker System 
Audio
Roccat Kave Headset 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Game News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PCG]Carmack pissed about RAGE issues, but admits id doesn’t see PC as “leading” ...