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GTX570 vs HD6970 - Equal? - Page 11

post #101 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levesque;15319885 
Everything is well explained here:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/21404

And the conclusion:

''There is another possible explanation. Let's connect the dots on that one. As you may know, the two major GPU vendors tend to identify the most promising upcoming PC games and partner up with the publishers and developers of those games in various ways, including offering engineering support and striking co-marketing agreements. As a very high-profile title, Crysis 2 has gotten lots of support from Nvidia in various forms. In and of itself, such support is generally a good thing for PC gaming. In fact, we doubt the DX11 patch for this game would even exist without Nvidia's urging. We know for a fact that folks at Nvidia were disappointed about how the initial Crysis 2 release played out, just as many PC gamers were. The trouble comes when, as sometimes happens, the game developer and GPU maker conspire to add a little special sauce to a game in a way that doesn't benefit the larger PC gaming community. There is precedent for this sort of thing in the DX11 era. Both the Unigine Heaven demo and Tom Clancy's HAWX 2 cranked up the polygon counts in questionable ways that seemed to inflate the geometry processing load without providing a proportionate increase in visual quality.

Unnecessary geometric detail slows down all GPUs, of course, but it just so happens to have a much larger effect on DX11-capable AMD Radeons than it does on DX11-capable Nvidia GeForces. The Fermi architecture underlying all DX11-class GeForce GPUs dedicates more attention (and transistors) to achieving high geometry processing throughput than the competing Radeon GPU architectures. We've seen the effect quite clearly in synthetic tessellation benchmarks. Few games have shown a similar effect, simply because they don't push enough polygons to strain the Radeons' geometry processing rates. However, with all of its geometric detail, the DX11 upgraded version of Crysis 2 now manages to push that envelope. The guys at Hardware.fr found that enabling tessellation dropped the frame rates on recent Radeons by 31-38%. The competing GeForces only suffered slowdowns of 17-21%.

Radeon owners do have some recourse, thanks to the slider in newer Catalyst drivers that allows the user to cap the tessellation factor used by games. Damien advises users to choose a limit of 16 or 32, well below the peak of 64.


As a publication that reviews GPUs, we have some recourse, as well. One of our options is to cap the tessellation factor on Radeon cards in future testing. Another is simply to skip Crysis 2 and focus on testing other games. Yet another is to exclude Crysis 2 results from our overall calculation of performance for our value scatter plots, as we've done with HAWX 2 in the past. We haven't decided exactly what we'll do going forward, and we may take things on a case-by-case basis. Whatever we choose, though, we'll be sure to point folks to this little article as we present our results, so they can understand why Crysis 2 may not be the most reliable indicator of comparative GPU performance
''


It's exactly what I'm saying all along. Cap the tesselation to cancel Nvidia's cheating with useless levels of tessaltion not adding anything to the picture quality: ''inflate the geometry processing load without providing a proportionate increase in visual quality''.

It's just helping Nvidia winning benchmarks (by cheating), to sell more card. smile.gif

Call me stupid, call my nood or troll, I don't care. The guys at TechPowerUp are saying exactly what I'm saying. smile.gif So call them stupid, troll or what you want also. smile.gif

wow nice information smile.gif
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post #102 of 111
AMD has better image quality once you max out all the settings (SSAA), but it takes up so much performance its not practical unless you use multi GPUs. It runs up to 8x on games like Fallout NV, but anything more demanding probably can't handle it. With x8 it makes games almost look 3D.

NVIDIA has a variation of it that only works on certain textures, it runs fine on almost any game, but looks no where near as good, and it doesn't always work. Still better than MSAA.
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post #103 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levesque;15319885 
It's exactly what I'm saying all along. Cap the tesselation to cancel Nvidia's cheating with useless levels of tessaltion not adding anything to the picture quality: ''inflate the geometry processing load without providing a proportionate increase in visual quality''.

Capping tessellation invalidates any direct comparison though. You can't make an apples to apples comparison when one card is running on lighter settings. Whether or not you can tell the difference visually is largely irrelevant.

That's no different than benching two cards with one running 16xAA and the other running 4x. Visual fidelity aside, one card is unquestionably doing more work than the other. You can't pass the 4x bench off as a 16x result. Who's cheating who then?
post #104 of 111
An update from earlier post, I today received my EVGA 570 HD 2.5Gb model. Was testing out GTA IV, FSX and few others when the system crashed and it turns out my CPU water-block sprung a leak from a tiny crack underneath with a very small drop managing to fall on my new card frown.gif. I have dismantled the Water setup and ordered a new Akasa Venom Voodoo CPU fan. I think I will go back to air for the time being. Unfortunately now won't get to bench the card (That's if it works) until Friday.
I really hope the card is fine!
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post #105 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moynesy;15346169 
An update from earlier post, I today received my EVGA 570 HD 2.5Gb model. Was testing out GTA IV, FSX and few others when the system crashed and it turns out my CPU water-block sprung a leak from a tiny crack underneath with a very small drop managing to fall on my new card frown.gif. I have dismantled the Water setup and ordered a new Akasa Venom Voodoo CPU fan. I think I will go back to air for the time being. Unfortunately now won't get to bench the card (That's if it works) until Friday.
I really hope the card is fine!

If it was only a few drops it should be fine. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it was a bunch of fluid.
post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior;15323959 
Capping tessellation invalidates any direct comparison though. You can't make an apples to apples comparison when one card is running on lighter settings. Whether or not you can tell the difference visually is largely irrelevant.

That's no different than benching two cards with one running 16xAA and the other running 4x. Visual fidelity aside, one card is unquestionably doing more work than the other. You can't pass the 4x bench off as a 16x result. Who's cheating who then?

I couldn't agree with you more in your prespective about tesselation and what it brings to the table in regards to comparison with cards or there lack of.

Why not promote tesselation when there is a difference in software development to a game? It's not proprietary more than it is one doing it better than the other and taking advantage of it.
A bit off topic here is a example another poster found of what details go missing without/with Physx. Both are playable, ones more visually enjoyable. Now Physx is Nvidia proprietary and would in fact hold true to not being able to be used in benching as fair. Though when used it's awesome. Here's a little taste.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trq6B4anzjM&feature=player_embedded&noredirect=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trq6B4anzjM&feature=player_embedded&noredirect=1[/ame]

By the way OP, have you made your choice yet? Some of us are wondering, put this thread to rest...tongue.gif

PS. I know the video is Nvidia promotion. No hate on me please. Opinions are welcome however.
     
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post #107 of 111
I personally think the 570s are better cards than 6970's but thats just me. Despite all the fanboys here realistically single card wise its slightly worse off than the 570 but in xfire its around equal or the 6970s having the slight edge. The 570s gain much more performance from clocking so if we take that into consideration they trade blows and both have their pros and cons. The 570s are somewhat louder and suck more juice where as the 6970s can run on a quality 650w. If performance is a must then I would have to recommend the 570s, if for any other reason i guess the 6970s arent a bad alternative.

EDIT: Also to the people saying that the 6970 is equal to the 580 is just insane. Even when you're at 1000 core try going up against a 580 at 900 core... you will get demolished.
Edited by Uncivilised - 10/18/11 at 11:22pm
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post #108 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainyAntics;15232033 
Yes I made a thread about it.

Corsair sent me an SSD, H80, and a $400 check. ;]

I need to get me some leaky water cooling..I could use some upgrades lol
    
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post #109 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncivilised;15364470 
EDIT: Also to the people saying that the 6970 is equal to the 580 is just insane. Even when you're at 1000 core try going up against a 580 at 900 core... you will get demolished.

Not at all. That's only if looking at old reviews (last january to may), or at synthetic benchmarks with over-the-top use of tessallation. Then the 580 will win.

The TechPowerUp article on Nvidia ''cheating'' with the use of useless tessallation (like rendering the ocean when it's not even showing on screen) in some games and benchmarks, was writen by experts to clearly show and analyse that problem.

If you look at recent reviews, and with latest drivers, 6970 Crossfire is head-to-head with 580 SLI, winning in some games, and loosing in some.
    
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post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levesque;15366066 
Not at all. That's only if looking at old reviews (last january to may), or at synthetic benchmarks with over-the-top use of tessallation. Then the 580 will win.

The TechPowerUp article on Nvidia ''cheating'' with the use of useless tessallation (like rendering the ocean when it's not even showing on screen) in some games and benchmarks, was writen by experts to clearly show and analyse that problem.

If you look at recent reviews, and with latest drivers, 6970 Crossfire is head-to-head with 580 SLI, winning in some games, and loosing in some.

Would you mind linking some of these recent reviews.
Edited by OrangeBunnies - 10/19/11 at 8:54am
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