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[Official] The Mouse Suggestion Thread - Page 53

post #521 of 6214
Let me make myself clear in case anyone wants wants to challenge this. I'm all for products accepted by everyone, but a lot of the time stuff gets over hyped or exaggerated within a group or forum because a specific product is slightly different from the last one (guilty myself). A lot of the times this gets misinterpreted as being extremely bad and basically marketed around multiple forums that a specific product sucks because of a little small flaw when a majority the population wouldn't care or notice if it wasn't brought up in the first place. For those that actually have a issue, by all means, though I don't think that's the case in this situation.

Another thing I'm specifically guilty for is the early A3090 hype which didn't work out well for a couple brands that wanted to capitalize on the enthusiast community. While they set out to release a couple products, the consumers were met with poor firmware implementation that eventually turned into "A3090 sucks" compared to the established S3888 and A3080 of the Deathadder (no angle snapping) and MX518 (angle snapping) though, this was before the fact that I knew or presented info that people didn't quite understand prior. This was because the community themselves were marketing the sensors as better or worse than the next one while the hardware was essentially the same differing by ROM (lol angle snapping).

Anyway after that little fiasco, another brand released their variation into the mix, but approached it with really thought out marketing targeting those other two brands that failed to deliver by stating such and such hacked the sensor and what not, but in reality this company was doing the same thing with their specific OEM. Ofc later on one of those early companies eventually went back and asked for a much better firmware set which does quite well, but alas the community still latches on to first impressions and we find people still stating a product sucks even tho the issues were corrected awhile back. Granted, I still think the firmware or hardware could use slight adjustment, but I'm honestly nitpicking the minor things that hardly get brought up. While the 3rd company did out perform the first two initially, I personally found greater issues within their mouse itself. Though did many people care? ofc not, High IPS tracking speed was number #1 in the minds of many and they finally had something usable regardless of how poor the tracking looked in my eyes.

I can go further and explain a lot of stuff people wouldn't expect nor believe, though I've seen what happens to other communities when info like that is presented. I suppose I'm just trying to be fair towards the market and brands.
Edited by Skylit - 10/9/12 at 2:02am
post #522 of 6214
As one of those people that believed that IPS is more important than say ergonomics and that the 3090 would be the end all sensor, I agree with your post Skylit. At least I learned a bit about my own preferences and priorities when it comes to mice, although it was quite expensive in the end. I still feel a bit guilty about riding the 3090/Zowie train so heavily.
post #523 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

I can go further and explain a lot of stuff people wouldn't expect nor believe, though I've seen what happens to other communities when info like that is presented. I suppose I'm just trying to be fair towards the market and brands.
I'd like to hear the factors that I "wouldn't expect". I'd like to hear what they are; it would probably help in my choice of future mice.

I'd also like to make it clear that I really don't know if that thing about muscle memory is true or not. In my experience, I have found that even when I got used to acceleration, it just made my aiming worse.
I don't actually notice prediction, however; that one sounds like it would be annoying, but I can't feel it at all. Maybe it's worse at high sensitivities.
Quote:
As one of those people that believed that IPS is more important than say ergonomics and that the 3090 would be the end all sensor, I agree with your post Skylit. At least I learned a bit about my own preferences and priorities when it comes to mice, although it was quite expensive in the end. I still feel a bit guilty about riding the 3090/Zowie train so heavily.
Yeah, ergonomics is probably the most important to a mouse other than its sensor not jittering noticably; that's why I bought a G400.
post #524 of 6214
My little obsession with mice started around 2 years ago, now it has moved to another field because i can see now that it doesn't really matter if you are using gamepad mouse or even arrow keys to aim. There is something else that really matters. I'm Quake player so excuse my bias.


Form my perspective, with the knowledge i have now I have to say that mouse doesn't matter as long as it is predictable and you are willing to adapt.

by this i mean:
  • can have acceleration (even if it looks like 9500 curve) as long as its not changing.
  • prediction is not a problem
  • sensor doesn't have to be in center of the mouse
  • LOD doesn't matter as long as it's in reasonable range (<10mm, >0.5mm, seriously you can adapt to that)
  • Perfect control/Malfunction speed doesn't matter but you have to be/become high sens player.
  • there cannot be jitter/ripple ( it's usually specific mouse-mousepad combo so its hard to say "this mouse jitters" etc..)
  • DPI cannot change(it would feel like variable acceleration). It could happen with multi colored mousepad.

Most of the problems people have are a result of old habits and lack of will to adapt(i don't say its bad, i say its possible and it will only lower your skills while in the process). It would be similar effort for someone used to 9500 mouse to switch to linear tracking mouse as the opposite.

I believe the best example is SS Kinzu(heavy prediction and acceleration) and Quake player Strenx(one of the top players in the world). He used to play with mx518 then his sponsor forced him to use kinzu, with which he played very good after adaptation process. After few years he wasn't forced to use it anymore so he picked his old trusty mx518 and guess what happened... he didnt like it and went back to kinzu and he is using it right now.
I know great players with sensitivities as high as 1cm/360 and as low as 100cm/360.

Muscle memory works even with mouse acceleration so it is not only storing distance but probably anything that is needed speed, time, distance etc.

OK Here is controversial part tongue.gif
You probably can play with x360 pad as good as a player with mouse and keyboard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zffq-1G_x_E

p.s. I'm still going to buy Aurora tongue.gifsmile.gif this obsession is still in my head redface.gif
post #525 of 6214
it doesn't matter if you can adapt and do well with a bad mouse, if there is a better mouse out there is stupid to try to adapt to something worse. Example: rapha using a WMO with a SS sticker on top.
post #526 of 6214
i had no clue mice were this complicated lol. i thought the only difference other than brands was dpi and the shape and how it feels when you use it
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post #527 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conspiracy View Post

i had no clue mice were this complicated lol. i thought the only difference other than brands was dpi and the shape and how it feels when you use it
Because that's what they want you to think and that's why companies with their 8200 dpi mice sell so much. wink.gif
post #528 of 6214
AFAIK rapha wants to change his wmo to something else because this old mouse is problematic at lans with its 125hz. He was interested in kana because dahang is using it smile.gif
He didn't want to change to Xai and i understand that, why would anyone change something that works.

With your first mouse you create your habits and as long as it is a reliable mouse and you are playing good with it you are going to assume its a good mouse.
Then someone gives you one without prediction and at first you suck in game because you have to adapt. Some players would assume its a bad mouse and throw it away, unless there are many players that are good with it. It is similar with acceleration and LOD.

We usually recommend as universal mouse as possible and i agree it is good in most cases but sometimes when a mouse meets the requirements of a user, there is someone who comes to say that the sensor is garbage. Garbage because it is not suited for low sens players or something like that and that is sad.
Informing potential buyer about all possible restrictions/flaws is important but it looks how it looks.
post #529 of 6214
Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSurfer View Post

AFAIK rapha wants to change his wmo to something else because this old mouse is problematic at lans with its 125hz. He was interested in kana because dahang is using it smile.gif
He didn't want to change to Xai and i understand that, why would anyone change something that works.
With your first mouse you create your habits and as long as it is a reliable mouse and you are playing good with it you are going to assume its a good mouse.
Then someone gives you one without prediction and at first you suck in game because you have to adapt. Some players would assume its a bad mouse and throw it away, unless there are many players that are good with it. It is similar with acceleration and LOD.
We usually recommend as universal mouse as possible and i agree it is good in most cases but sometimes when a mouse meets the requirements of a user, there is someone who comes to say that the sensor is garbage. Garbage because it is not suited for low sens players or something like that and that is sad.
Informing potential buyer about all possible restrictions/flaws is important but it looks how it looks.

Spot on. Stopped contributing to thread when 1) old thread starter wanted to maintain ownership and there was no way for me to upkeep the OP without violating the TOS, 2) people flame opinions of mice for your listed reason, & 3) almost no one says thanks for the opinion.

The actual technical aspects are not always as important as the form factor and how similar the new mouse is to your previous one. It takes time to adapt to something new, and most people just say that something different sucks. Thread seems to have deviated and lost its purpose of making suggestions on mice for the purpose of meeting the person's criteria.
    
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post #530 of 6214
so because i dont seem to fully understand from the guide explaining the different sensors. what is the major difference between laser/optical, opinions on which are better is not needed as that is probably subjective.

i care more about when i move my mouse that i feel like it is doing exactly what im telling it to and that its accurate and feels accurate moving the mouse around. im not a hardcore gamer or anything but i use my mouse A LOT while editing video and photos.

im currently trying to decide between the G400 and G500 with the biggest difference being laser/optical sensor.

which one is going to have that really nice accurate feel to it? all other bs aside unless it has prediction and acceleration that makes it hard to use the mouse and cant be turned off
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