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[Official] AMD Bulldozer Reviews Thread - Page 110

post #1091 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by black96ws6 View Post
Thanks for the link to the review that compares the 6100 and 4100, here's a snippet:

Wow. Those scores are abysmal.
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post #1092 of 2308
can anyone confirm if the original project lead/core team were either fired or left?

i swear its like, AMD originally was designing a quad core with physical hyperthreading instead of the magic faerie dust intel uses...but somewhere in the middle they forgot that, KEPT THE SAME layout of the chip, and started calling it an octo-core instead of a quad.
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post #1093 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post
Sounds plausible...though that is a pretty hefty jump just for a higher speed ram lol. I'm thinking it may have more to do with the motherboard.
It does make some sense... if the caching logic is even worse than people are saying it is.
    
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post #1094 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbalt89 View Post
Wow. Those scores are abysmal.
LOL the A8 and A6 both beat the quad core FX.
 
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post #1095 of 2308
I guess my processor isn't as obsolete as I thought it was becoming. I'm about on par with the FX. Pretty sad news indeed, as I was going to use BD in my upcoming build for a family member. Guess I'll have to find another chip to use, and it will in all likelihood be intel now. I wish there was a good value for money chip out there that truly epitomized the idea that you can have good quad-core or higher performance for a price under $200
post #1096 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post
I agree entirely. I also think that doubling a chip's size to obtain equal performance shows a serious bottleneck somewhere. If I may quote myself.

"The chip was launched too early. I think that two performance increases are coming. The first will be piledriver. I suspect (given that it is launching in just a few months) that AMD pushed out this chip knowing that it had problems. I further suspect that the biggest problem is the one thing AMD won't talk about: branch prediction. Anand's N x N queen simulation helps to show that branch prediction has taken a large step backwards. Given that branch prediction is even more important with a longer pipeline, this is one of the most likely culprits. I believe that piledriver will focus almost entirely on fixing this problem.

The second problem is GF. AMD planned on a base frequency 30% faster and only achieved 9% faster. Even with the problems the chip has, overclock benchmarks @4.6Ghz (about 30% faster) places the chip more where it should be (at stock). In the upcoming revisions I think that speedbumps of 200Mhz+ are likely. Part of the cache latency problem is also linked to poor fab yields (increasing cache latency can help improve yields) and I suspect that piledriver will also have cache latencies more along the lines of Phenom II (or maybe just a bit faster).

All this said, this chip's intended audience was never primarily consumers. I think that server benchmarks show this chip to be more than competitive with sandy bridge.

OT edit: I think that with the BD transistor budget, AMD should have done what IBM did with POWER7 and made the L3 cache eDRAM (IBM did this to put more in while using less die space) and forgoing L3 for consumer chips because L3 is primarily to help with multi-processor bottlenecking in server/HPC environments."

edit: I do wonder if the cores are being starved by a too-narrow decode unit.
All of this sounds very plausible.
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post #1097 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post
Did someone claim there was going to be one? Because reviewing my posts I can see that I only eluded to a possiblity, but I have no first-, second- or tenth-hand knowlegde of anything of the sort. It would make sense that if it's a patchable issue something is already being worked on.
For someone who goes to great lengths to appear impartial, you sure appear partial to yourself. You're not the only one who has brought up the potential for a L1 fix or kernel fix or whatever that will magically ameliorate all of the issues that BD has shown. You brought it up, I responded with skepticism. That's not a personal attack on you or your beliefs. Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that AMD and MS have been working on this for any significant length of time, if at all.

It's easier for AMD to not say anything and post extremely questionable youtube videos with the comments disabled than it is to make their product work as advertised.
    
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post #1098 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post
For someone who goes to great lengths to appear impartial, you sure appear partial to yourself.
I have to go out of my way to remind people not to take my words out of context or twist them into their own agenda because it happens here so very often.
post #1099 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post
For someone who goes to great lengths to appear impartial, you sure appear partial to yourself. You're not the only one who has brought up the potential for a L1 fix or kernel fix or whatever that will magically ameliorate all of the issues that BD has shown. You brought it up, I responded with skepticism. That's not a personal attack on you or your beliefs. Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that AMD and MS have been working on this for any significant length of time, if at all.

It's easier for AMD to not say anything and post extremely questionable youtube videos with the comments disabled than it is to make their product work as advertised.
How is it impartial to hope for a fix? I would hope both sides of the fence would be hoping for a fix....
 
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post #1100 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post
BD has been in development for this long and they still haven't managed to get this mythical patch out yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus View Post
I didn't say it would be a simple fix. Still, AMD and MS are filled with smart people that should have been able to get this done by now.

Which leads me to believe that this hotfix or patch is not real.
I suppose you forgot how drivers and these "mythical patches" helped Fermi's performance.

I'm sure it's taking longer than expected to optimize BD's new instruction sets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagle3092 View Post
To be fair, using an unscripted play through from a multiplayer game is a piss poor benchmark. There are to many variables that could happen from one run to another.
I'll give you that, as it can be fairly inconsistent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post
You can't go off percents...that is just sensationalizing the numbers. I absolutely dread it when news and marketing people do that. If you want to talk margin of error in percents you have to pretty much go off that +/- 7.5% is the margin of error when dealing in numbers this big. if the number were 10 and 15 there is a 50% increase!!!! woot! but once you have a significant base number like 100 and 105 then you are 5%. As the base number go up so does the margine of error.

Keep things mathmatical and not subjective. We are MEASURING performance so stick with actual measuremeants and leave the OMG percents alone. Same goes for those graphs that are showing SB like 70% better than BD in something. It is pointless percentages that do nothing but stir people up because 70% sounds much worse than 10 seconds slower.


Plus that overlocked 2600k must be unstable if the 2500k is beating it. they are the same CPU essentially once you OC. so you need to focus on the stock measurements if you are going to continue using that data. Though since it is a beta game it could get released and have drastically different results...I've seen it happen before.
I was just proving a point with the percents. A lot of people have said that BD performs worse, and I just put it in a format that is easy for people to decipher and see that it's not true. Not as great as expected? Sure. But not as bad as a lot of people would have you believe.

As for the 2500k, I'm not sure if it's an unstable overclock, as I read through a lot of the reviews today, I noticed that this diminished performance after overclocking was fairly common throughout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
1866RAM used. Just like in Guru3Ds the higher the RAM speed the better BD does it seems.
As with all AMD's since x64 architecture. RAM frequency, timings and, for AM3 at least, CPU-NB frequency plays a huge role in overall performance.

And contrary to popular belief about intels, memory timings play just as big of a role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G3RG View Post
Sounds plausible...though that is a pretty hefty jump just for a higher speed ram lol. I'm thinking it may have more to do with the motherboard.
I'd have to agree. It's odd that all of the reviews that used the Asus board, BD did so poorly. Something smells fishy.

Oddly enough, ASrock is a spin-off company of Asus.
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