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[Official] AMD Bulldozer Reviews Thread - Page 160

post #1591 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eolas View Post
The question is...with all that horsepower why is the bulldozer floundering? And can it be fixed?
I have a feeling it has the raw horsepower to easily overpower the current top end chips if everything else was engineered correctly within the package. Something is definitely off with BD. With that much under the hood, it seems like it is being starved of something or lacking a proper scheduler or something along those lines. I don't know much about it honestly, but it just seems very odd that it could perform so bad with all the crap packed inside. I still have hopes that some improvements will come in some form, whether it is software coded to take advantage of BD's unique methods or a hardware revision to fix decode/prefetch/scheduling maybe? I'm not expecting some miracle like some others around here, but even a 10-15% boost with a quick new revision would be a pretty huge step forward if they done it quick enough.
Edited by Strat79 - 10/13/11 at 12:16am
post #1592 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post
So right now, what?

Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer?
Definitely Sandy Bridge, but the FX-6100 may be a good choice for lower end builds.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/43...tar/index.html

Excellent read right there.
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post #1593 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post
So right now, what?

Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer?
Seriously? Check my sig and my avatar.
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post #1594 of 2308
I'm gonna make a poll about it, so look around in the General Processor Discussions thread
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post #1595 of 2308
This whole situation is really kind of awkward and a little sad, really. I was reading Anand's review and looking at how Thuban performs, and it really brings the question: what if AMD had just made a few architectural improvements, lowered the cache and memory latencies, doubled the L3 cache to 12 MB, added two extra cores and Turbo Core 2.0, on a 32nm process ?

I mean, when you look at the data on Anand's review you can see they actually made a few improvements - the cache and memory latencies are better in Thuban compared to the Phenom II X4, and sometimes it possibly doesn't do better than a 3.6 Ghz X4 because Turbo Core is very rudimentary and doesn't really work that well. But you get the feeling they were in the right path with Thuban.

And after reading some more it really looks like they have a Prescott in their hands even if their goal wasn't exactly that. It uses too much power, they are possibly having problems with the process technology (they are moving to a better 32nm one next year), it does well in some tasks, especially multi-threaded ones, but loses in games, single threaded tasks, and other tests.

This is Prescott all over again. Prescott also didn't lose every benchmark, they won in video editing and in some productivity software. But games was FX territory, which is all the more embarrasing for this moniker's comeback.


It's funny how they went on to design this chip: they are thinking about the future, but they can't afford to think like this, really, they literally don't have the money to do this. Intel could do it with Prescott, but AMD can't. Because when their approach finally makes sense (if it ever will), it will be too late. They need to sell chips with good performance now, not in a year's time, when their relative performance will be lower in any case and in need of upgrade anyhow.

The same thing happened with Prescott where you have Hyperthreading, which in many cases was detrimental to performance - including games. You had better multitasking in Windows and some applications that took advantage of it, but it wasn't a win-win situation - and even today the gamer's choice is a 2500k - you can clearly see from the benchmarks that the 2600k needs an additional 100 Mhz and 2MB of cache to somewhat compensate for HT being on. Sometimes it wins in games that already take advantage of it, but in many others it loses and comes just ahead of the i5 2400.

This is a testament that you can't have your cake and fully eat it, even today - HT has gotten much better, but Intel knows it's not perfect, and hence the 2500k. If you want the benefits in multithreaded applications and are are willing to sacrifice a few fps in some games, then the 2600k is the best choice, but for general use the 2500k is the king of the hill, also because of price/performance.

So, Intel learned that you need to diferentiate according to the users' needs, and give them performance they need right now. It's really of no benefit if you have a CPU with HT that your apps don't take advantage of and still take a performance hit for it. AMD is only now going to learn the lesson.

And they really can't afford to lower single threaded performance when their previous effort still wasn't enough. This is just ridiculous. They can only do this many years after the fact. Let me give an example: my Core 2 Quad Q9550 overclocked to 3.4 Ghz has comparable performance to a Phenom II X4 975 / 980, and it plays most games fine. However, some games that like fast dual cores, like Crysis, sometimes dip into the 20's fps. And there are many other applications and games that favour faster dual or single threaded execution.

So, until a CPU manufacturer has reached a point where you get inquestionably good performance in these types of usage cenarios, your single and dual threaded performance has to keep going up, not going down - as I said, they can only do this once the performance of a CPU is so high that they can afford to lower it a bit in some cases - just like dropping some native CPU instruction because few people use it and you can do it with emulation or something that will still run it more than fast enough.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/13/11 at 12:33am
 
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post #1596 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post
I'm gonna make a poll about it, so look around in the General Processor Discussions thread
It really depends on what you plan on doing with it. For most things, and I mean almost everything outside of maybe video encoding, it is a no brainer to go with SB over BD as of right now. Even in the few things BD is showing promise in, you have to weigh the power consumption and cost to run it, so even then it may not be worth it. I'd have a hard time recommending a BD build to anyone over SB and this is coming from a long, long time AMD supporter and fan. I'd almost go as far as saying I was a fanboy, just not a crazed fanatical fanboy like some on here. I always pull for underdogs and AMD was one of my favs for well over a decade. They have lost a long time customer with this stunt though. At least temporarily, if they can fix this quickly.
Edited by Strat79 - 10/13/11 at 12:26am
post #1597 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat79 View Post
It really depends on what you plan on doing with it. For most things, and I mean almost everything outside of maybe video encoding, it is a no brainer to go with SB over BD as of right now. Even in the few things BD is showing promise in, you have to weigh the power consumption and cost to run it, so even then it may not be worth it. I'd have a hard time recommending a BD build to anyone over SB and this is coming from a long, long time AMD supporter and fan.
Yeah, well, I think the reviews are kind of misleading, because most of them say negative stuff about BD, but then again some have made positive reviews... It's confusing my mind! Especially because I really wanted to build and AMD BD rig for a couple of friends :S
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post #1598 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post
Yeah, well, I think the reviews are kind of misleading, because most of them say negative stuff about BD, but then again some have made positive reviews... It's confusing my mind! Especially because I really wanted to build and AMD BD rig for a couple of friends :S
I'd just wait a few weeks until all the people on here get their hands on them and bench them independently so we know for sure. Plus it may give time for any new patches/fixes that could possibly, though unlikely, come out to improve performance. Make your decision after being more informed, can't hurt to wait.
post #1599 of 2308
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1. Faildozer108 up, 6 down
To fail over and over again in spectacular manner.
Here comes the Faildozer!
buy faildozer mugs & shirts
earl douglas failure loser ron & fez noon to three faint black earl wnew
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2. Faildozer65 up, 4 down
1. An individual whose attempts to complete any and all tasks are rewarded only by shame and humiliation.
2. The heavy machinery of failure. (ESD)
3. Black Earl.
" *beep* *beep* HERE COMES THE FAILDOZER!!!"
buy faildozer mugs & shirts
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lol, i was unaware that it came from urban dictionary. its sad, and i feel bad for everyone that held out to upgrade. but some of the stuff on it is too funny. my favorite is still hitler.
    
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post #1600 of 2308
AMD owners sure are the minority in this thread. It's like Intel owners are trying to make up for the recall 1155 had. Yay Intel for gaining the lead and staying ahead the last few years.
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