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[Official] AMD Bulldozer Reviews Thread - Page 174

post #1731 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz6804 View Post
Hey there, everyone!

Please remember that we should all be civil and professional on this forum. Please check your profanity and personal insults at the door.
Whoa now. I was told I could have at least one carry-on bag for my insults and profanity!
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post #1732 of 2308
lol my 2600k is only capable of 5.0 Ghz if I turn off HT

This review is a joke... 4.7 Ghz is the highest I can go with HT on...

Granted my 2600k is the first generation of the processors... im sure the newer ones are better... but still

no matter the other reviews show me BD failed... I will be picking up IVY and running the SB is as my second computer... most likely turning it (SB box) into a Virtual Machine box... was thinking about doing a bulldozer build for my Virtual machine box but not with its single threaded performance...
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post #1733 of 2308
I just died.
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AMD has Ryzen
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post #1734 of 2308
As long as the bag remains closed and locked, have at it.

Lest not this thread be closed and locked.
     
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post #1735 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz Here View Post
The case where you're using a Bulldozer chip apparently.
ooohhh snap!

BD is spanked by really bad by SB in these tests...

However, this review is incomplete (as has been mentioned here over and over again).
1. Test max overclocks, after all, enthusiasts want as far as they can go (which is what they sorta did). However, I dare say less than 2% of SB chips are ran @5.2Ghz 24/7... also, BD reported even higher (~5.5Ghz) overclocks. It is only fair that they find such a BD OC out there and test with that if they really want to play with golden chips.
2. There is nothing wrong with testing with beyond-average OC's, however, the review will remain unbalanced until they include tests @ the same clocks...

We still need to realize that though this may not be reflective of the general gaming population, there do exist enthusiasts with such setups which have to be catered for so ...
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post #1736 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz6804 View Post
As long as the bag remains closed and locked, have at it.

Lest not this thread be closed and locked.
Fine I suppose I can keep my personal threats to a minimum. Especially since it is actually time to board my flight!

See everyone later tonight!
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post #1737 of 2308
LOL at all the AMD Fanboys making excuses for BD - Just admit the 2500K is the way to go already...
post #1738 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post
Yields are terrible. The launch was probably comprised of mostly paper.
I don't expect some magic 50% performance increase.

Linux developers seem to have had (still having?) a difficult time redesigning the scheduler to suit the new architecture. I assume that Windows developers are having similar issues. The issue talked about earlier in this thread (where disabling the second integer core in each module improves performance/clock). While this could show a problem with the decode unit but the decode unit is probably not the biggest problem. Data and instructions reach the integer cores only after being decoded. A decoder bottleneck will exist regardless of which integer core or cores are working downstream(the max no. of instructions decoded per unit of time is the max no. of instructions which can be executed per unit of time regardless of how many execution units are present); however, rearranging the chip in software (via disabling some cores) to simulate a more traditional architecture shows that the performance gains are more likely to be due to better scheduling optimization and less cache thrashing (not "getting more instructions to fewer core").

AMD's problem is that the CPU (apparently) can't effectively use all the available integer cores due to poor scheduling by the OS, large cache latencies, not enough decoders, and poor branch prediction. That is to say that the integer units (and possibly the FPU's) are being bottlenecked.

The poor scheduling can be fixed and (based off Anandtech's Windows 8 not-fully-optimized alpha test) will decrease normal power consumption (unused cores can downclock) while increase performance 10% or maybe more (some 4c/4cu benches showed >20% increases). The cache latencies were probably increased over expected numbers to increase yields due to poor 32nm performance at Globalfoundries. They will probably increase with the next stepping or two (side note: one of AMD's goals was near linear performance increase with clockspeed (something SB doesn't achieve) and getting the 30% clockspeed advantage over Deneb that was initially expected will also be a side affect of fab improvements).

Improving decoders (if necessary) and improving branch prediction require a complete reworking of the front-end of the processor. With normal development times for simple chip redesigns being a couple of years, I suspect that AMD knew months ago about the poor decode and branch prediction. This is the only explanation for how soon piledriver is being released (just a few months rather than a couple of years for a major redesign). AMD likely counted on the 30% greater stock clockspeed to carry them until the redesign was finished (notice that the 4.6Ghz overclock benches (roughly 30% faster than Deneb designs) were fairly competitive), but AMD was screwed by the bad fab (though I believe AMD to be at fault as well for shipping a faulty design).


My prediction (please don't quote me later, I am being optimistic, but in reality, I have little faith)

Between a 10-15% average OS performance increase (this seems fairly definite), better fabs giving (I guess) 20% increase in clockspeed rather than 30% (scaling almost linearly), better fabs giving nearly 80% improvement in cache latencies (to match Deneb latencies should be completely possible, cache is cache), and 10-15% IPC improvement (also seems fairly definite) due to more decode and better branch prediction, I believe that the next iteration will show more of the theoretical potential.

edit: At best, 15% from OS and 15% from redesign gives 30% IPC performance boost (making it 20% faster than Deneb and 20% slower than Sandybridge). Better cache latencies are a mixed bag; they may give less than 2% for some applications or they may give >20% for others. If clockspeed can be increased the total increases give between 35-90% increases in performance (that's a huge delta). Even with a 70-90% increase in overall performance, performance per transister would still be worse than Sandybridge.

This seems to be the only explanation for why a chip half the transistor count of bulldozer can have better performance. As the chip is currently, I couldn't recommend anyone buy one (I don't think that I could recommend one even if the OS problem went away).
I completely agree with this post, bulldozer was pushed out too soon. The architecture clearly has potential if they can get over these frankly completely performance breaking issues. AMD really should have taken a page from intels play book and did a dieshrink of the phenom II so global foundries would have more experience with 32nm rather then jumping right into a new architecture and a new manufacturing process as well.
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post #1739 of 2308
OK Now Im tired of the Bulldozer haters

yeah, its inferior to SB, we get it people
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post #1740 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by elito View Post
may i ask why reviewers ALWAYS, LIKE 99% ALWAYS bench these things on DIFFERENT CLOCKS? i mean..honestly, we all knew SB beats BD. but really..whats the point if youre gonna do 5.2ghz vs. 4.75ghz?? whats wrong with leaving both at 4.7??!?!? i dont get these retarded reviewers man. having better/stronger/faster architecture is one thing, but putting them on clocks that gives them PURE WIN is another.. ferrari with 600hp vs. porsche with 500hp. hmm...ferrari def wins..but thanks to the great differnce in the engine, its now PURE WIN.
p.s.. - they dare to say "apples to apples" well obv. u failed if you cant even have both systems configured accordingly to eachother.
Because then you are downclocking the 2600k to a speed it is more than capable of surpassing just because the 8150 can't go any higher. How on earth is that considered fair to SB, that it be punished for being a BETTER clocker?!?!
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