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[Official] AMD Bulldozer Reviews Thread - Page 195

post #1941 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhe4e12345;15299866 
so wait....disabling 4 of the cores and BD is actually pretty decent...? it seems pretty good from this but maybe im wrong...?

Still significantly worst than a Deneb clock for clock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol;15299460 
I wouldn't call it relief. It just does a good job at explaining why BD doesn't perform well.

I'm still not buying BD. There's no reason to.

BD doesn't work well because the design just isn't very good. Multithreaded software uses more threads. I don't see X6 struggling anywhere, BD is just a different approach at that same end result: more cores. The modular design shares resources, and they're already little, narrrow, weak cores clusters. Ouch. Anyways, you can slice it any way you want it, but software's direction won't be dependant of any kind of architecture advancement brough from BD other than more cores. Not some kind of new secret coding abilities you blindlessly seem to want to convey. BD just sucks. The ONLY reason it would do better in future software, is more cores. With all due respect, please don't keep facepalming peoples correct analysis due to some kind of blind hope.

Then you've got the scheduler in W8. W7 is the flagship now, and i'll be sticking with W7 for a long time, just like lots of others. We shouldn't have to upgrade PSUs AND and OS to get the full performance. And what, 5% on average - 10% better in best case scenarios. Here's where facepalm is appropriate. doh.gif
Edited by Dmac73 - 10/13/11 at 7:18pm
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post #1942 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
Anyway, just think back to Windows 98/ME that did not properly support Intel Hyper-threading. If the OS can properly use BD's architecture so it does not thrash, it can perform a bit better.
A bit of a nitpick but Windows NT and 2000 (before the final service pack) are better examples.

98/ME don't support multiple cores (physical or logical) at all.
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post #1943 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac73 View Post
*stuff*
I bet you anything that in Piledriver, each integer core has its own L2 Cache to pull from rather than a shared one like in Bulldozer. I bet that clears up the "scheduler" issue and increases IPC 10-15% at the same time.

It's not rocket science. It's common sense.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 10/13/11 at 7:25pm
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post #1944 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelthras View Post
Does no one remember how crazy it was when they put TWO CORES on one cpu? How long did it take for that little bit of hardware change be worked into programming. OH RIGHT, the majority of programs still don't take advantage of multicore cpu's.

Mad beat me to it, but this is still a valid response.
Actually at the time of dual core processors XP supported and utilized them just fine. Software that utilized dual cores also generally worked better on one platform vs another. In that case it was the athlon 64, because its architecture as a whole was more efficient then the P4. The BD is AMD's P4, it has nothing to do with "software" optimization. Even if it did, it's irrelevant, by the time these changes come around BD will be a distant memory.
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post #1945 of 2308
And hey even before release, AMD said they got 50% more performance from 33% more cores. That would be in a perfect world with the nice lightly threaded apps that BD loves, so its not that suprising in that way.
post #1946 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post
Dude, you should probably say why everyone's wrong instead of posting retarded facepalm images and pretending like you know everything.
He bolded the section he was talking about. He is right, too. When you disable 1 integer core per module in Bulldozer, the IPC becomes comparable to that of each core in Deneb. Basically, a 4c/4m Bulldozer design becomes comparable to that of a 4-core Phenom II.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac73 View Post
Piledriver is different. I'm waiting on Piledriver myself, as POSSIBLY my next CPU. We're talking about Bulldozer.
AMD has already stated that Piledriver will be a tweaked Bulldozer core. It's not going to be radically different.
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post #1947 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post
He bolded the section he was talking about. He is right, too. When you disable 1 integer core per module in Bulldozer, the IPC becomes comparable to that of each core in Deneb. Basically, a 4c/4m Bulldozer design becomes comparable to that of a 4-core Phenom II.



AMD has already stated that Piledriver will be a tweaked Bulldozer core. It's not going to be radically different.
Yes, BD has problems, obviously. Tweaking a mature architecture and fixing the problems of a brand new one are totally different.

And, you mean we'll finally get our Phenom 2 X8 from AMD?

edit; my bolded point still stands. Go look at the results. Then go look at a PH2 clock for clock. IPC is STILL lower. Cinebench clock for clock 4m/4c BD is STILL a good bit lower. If comparable equals lower, sure, i'm stupid.
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post #1948 of 2308
This whole thing just sounds like deja vu for when Fermi was first released. Nvidia made a GPU (Tesla) that overheated and had way more built into it then was even being utilized, it failed in most common respects...and ever since then the 580 is doing great and even better in some cases (tessellation, which at the time was next-gen development) than their AMD counterparts.

AMD took the same chance Nvidia did by taking their architecture to the next level and patiently awaited the next round where they could do some serious catchup....

Well, all this is what I hope because I'd hate to see Intel with no competition.
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post #1949 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowclock View Post
This whole thing just sounds like deja vu for when Fermi was first released. Nvidia made a GPU (Tesla) that overheated and had way more built into it then was even being utilized, it failed in most common respects...and ever since then the 580 is doing great and even better in some cases (tessellation, which at the time was next-gen development) than their AMD counterparts.

AMD took the same chance Nvidia did by taking their architecture to the next level and patiently awaited the next round where they could do some serious catchup....

Well, all this is what I hope because I'd hate to see Intel with no competition.

Except Fermi performed better than the competition. Not worst than it's predecessor.
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post #1950 of 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post
He bolded the section he was talking about. He is right, too. When you disable 1 integer core per module in Bulldozer, the IPC becomes comparable to that of each core in Deneb. Basically, a 4c/4m Bulldozer design becomes comparable to that of a 4-core Phenom II.
Which is irrelevant because a 4 module Bulldozer runs for $220 on newegg, while a Phenom II 955 runs for $120. Why would you spend 100 dollars more to break even?
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