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post #2531 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

I had about thirty minutes this morning to fool around with clocks on my FX-4100 and run a few quick tests.
At stock I noticed my memory latency really sucks, with maxmem reporting over 90 compared to about 50compared to my phenom II. Some tweaking and I brought it down to 70, which is still unbelievably bad. Maybe BD likes RAM speed over latency...who knows.
On that note, I noticed that CPU-NB multiplier has a cap of 13, although I brought it up to 2700mhz with 1.28volts. I didn't notice nearly as much memory performance increase as I did on the K10.5. Any thoughts on this?
I did get much better maxmem scores when CPU frequency was pushed. I'm sitting at about 4600mhz now, trying to find my stable voltage which looks like it will be in the 1.4v range. Seem typical? Stressed temps at this setting are still quite low, just low thirties celcius. Seem normal for good air cooled 4100 or are my temp sensors borked?
So...this HT link of 2600MHZ. You guys keeping it there? Any point in rasing or lowering it?
My first impression is mixed. I was very giddy as I was booting up over 4400MHZ at 1.25v, but saddened by the memory latency thing. I'm hoping that further tests show that high frequencies can overcome any shortfalls. I have my own database of my past bechmarks (AM2, AM2+, AM3) to which I'll be comparing. I'm mostly interested in seeing how well it does in gaming performance compared to my past AMD chips (Athlon 64, 64x2, 9550, 7750, 550, B50, 955, 1090T).
Definitely fun to play with something new. Even better that it was only $120 and came with free thermal paste and a $20 gift card.
Anyone tried core unlocker? I couldn't boot when I enabled mine at stock, though I will play with this further in verious settings.

My temps only go up a few C under stress from 29-30c idle to about 35-36 stressed what timings u have on the ram cos those maxxmem scores seem pretty poor? heres mine on stock and best quick stable OC I got, like even on stock mine seems better than yours OCed

The OC is bumping up cpu and cpu/nb only with HT 2600

Too busy atm to try for more

327

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post #2532 of 8112
Please add me to Owners Club

Hawtoothpk - FX-8150 - ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2177819
http://www.overclock.net/t/1139726/amd-fx-bulldozer-owners-club
post #2533 of 8112
Hmm I def need to tweak on things more. my mem scores are not good at all.
Has any one got Corsair Vengeance 1600 above that with out loosening the timings?
450
Edited by DevilDriver - 1/2/12 at 8:27am
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post #2534 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMD4ME View Post

This information is incorrect. Yes AMD uses a scaler for temp. but the temps are correct and neither 70C not 90C is the max temp for all AMD CPUs as they vary considerably from 62C upwards depending on model. While some of the temp. monitoring software has not been updated for the FX CPUs, no CPU can operate at temps. below ambient with air cooling.

[Citation needed].


From http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/41256.pdf : "2.10.1 The Tctl Temperature Scale
Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to control its cooling systems. Tctl is accessible through SB-TSI and F3xA4[CurTmp]. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does not represent an actual physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must supply the maximum cooling for the processor’s specified maximum case temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation. It is defined as follows for all parts:
For Tctl = 0 to Tctl_max - 0.125: the temperature of the part is [Tctl_max - Tctl] degrees under the temperature for which maximum cooling is required"

This clearly states that the real die temperature is offset by some amount from core temp (Tctl), the value that is displayed by HW monitoring tools. Tctl_max=70 (see below.) "The temperature for which maximum cooling is required" is unknown but since Tctl reads in the low teens at idle with normal ambient temperatures, when the motherboard sensor reads 30-ish C, it can be inferred that the delta is around 20C. That is consistent with Intel's max temps in the 90s.
Further down, "The default value of the HTC temperature threshold (Tctl_max) is specified in the Power and Thermal Datasheet."

From that datasheet (http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/43375.pdf):
"2. Tctl Max (maximum control temperature) is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale that can be used for system thermal management policies. Refer to the BIOS and Kernel Developer’s Guide (BKDG) for AMD Family 10h Processors, order# 31116."
and then it says "Tctl Max 70 oC" for every CPU in the table.

So, max core temp is *always* 70 for AMD CPUs. That value of 70 does not mean your CPU is about to melt, it's the temperature at which maximum cooling is requested, i.e. a normal operating temperature.

AMD has also stated that the family 15h temperature sensor is identical to family 10h so the above applies to Bulldozer as well as the earlier CPUs although the datasheets have not been updated for Bulldozer yet.
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post #2535 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDriver View Post

Hmm I def need to tweak on things more. my mem scores are not good at all.
Has any one got Corsair Vengeance 1600 above that with out loosening the timings?

will it not retain the stock timings at those speeds?

606

whats consitered a good maxxmem score?
 
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post #2536 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocmi_teddy View Post

will it not retain the stock timings at those speeds?

whats consitered a good maxxmem score?

Sadly no. I had to loosen timings to get it to load windows and be stable, but I've also read of some people having issues getting Vengeance to even run stock 1600 on AMD.
stock XMP-1600 is 800Mhz 9-9-9-24-41 2T
I've got them running 872.9Mhz 10-10-10-24-34 stable.

I'm not sure what is considered a good maxxmem score, but what I do know is this thing spanks the crap out of my old QX6700 in every thing I've tested, and I've been told a QX should be better than BD. I do not agree from personal use and testing.
here are the maxxmem scores from my QX6700575
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post #2537 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrohbeck View Post

[Citation needed].
From http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/41256.pdf : "2.10.1 The Tctl Temperature Scale
Tctl is the processor temperature control value, used by the platform to control its cooling systems. Tctl is accessible through SB-TSI and F3xA4[CurTmp]. Tctl is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale measured in degrees. It does not represent an actual physical temperature like die or case temperature. Instead, it specifies the processor temperature relative to the point at which the system must supply the maximum cooling for the processor’s specified maximum case temperature and maximum thermal power dissipation. It is defined as follows for all parts:
For Tctl = 0 to Tctl_max - 0.125: the temperature of the part is [Tctl_max - Tctl] degrees under the temperature for which maximum cooling is required"
This clearly states that the real die temperature is offset by some amount from core temp (Tctl), the value that is displayed by HW monitoring tools. Tctl_max=70 (see below.) "The temperature for which maximum cooling is required" is unknown but since Tctl reads in the low teens at idle with normal ambient temperatures, when the motherboard sensor reads 30-ish C, it can be inferred that the delta is around 20C. That is consistent with Intel's max temps in the 90s.
Further down, "The default value of the HTC temperature threshold (Tctl_max) is specified in the Power and Thermal Datasheet."
From that datasheet (http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/43375.pdf):
"2. Tctl Max (maximum control temperature) is a non-physical temperature on an arbitrary scale that can be used for system thermal management policies. Refer to the BIOS and Kernel Developer’s Guide (BKDG) for AMD Family 10h Processors, order# 31116."
and then it says "Tctl Max 70 oC" for every CPU in the table.
So, max core temp is *always* 70 for AMD CPUs. That value of 70 does not mean your CPU is about to melt, it's the temperature at which maximum cooling is requested, i.e. a normal operating temperature.
AMD has also stated that the family 15h temperature sensor is identical to family 10h so the above applies to Bulldozer as well as the earlier CPUs although the datasheets have not been updated for Bulldozer yet.

Thank you for proving my point that if the proper scaler is used, the temps. shown by software will be correct, as I stated. thumb.gif This has been the case for many years. Standard industry practice.
post #2538 of 8112
@moonmanas. Test was done with Gskill Snipers 2x4GB DDR3-1600 @8-9-8-24-32-1T (stock is 9-9-9...)

At same memory speed/timing, my Thuban scored much, much better, although nb was OC over 3GHZ compared to the 2.7ish of this BD.

I'm still trying to find my sweet spot with 100% stability, so things may improve. I'll have lots of time to play around with it over the next four days. My 2 hour prime blend passed, but my 8 hour failed, so I need to make some minor adjustments.

Currently at 4.5GHZ core and 2.6GHZ nb at 1.41v and 1.28v. During my prime blend, I never saw above 37'C with my fans at 50%. I couldn't believe it so I took of my side panel to feel my hyper 212+, and sure enough it was cool. I reckon I'll juice it some and see what I get. My Phenom II's were always limited by heat. This FX-4100 is amazingly cool so far, so I'll see how it handles 1.55v.
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post #2539 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDriver View Post

Hmm I def need to tweak on things more. my mem scores are not good at all.
Has any one got Corsair Vengeance 1600 above that with out loosening the timings?
450

I'd say that's about where you should be.
post #2540 of 8112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerRestore View Post

Thanks Mike. Always great info. It turns out that my issue was because I left PCI-E on auto. with it manually set to 100mhz I can boot fine at 250FSB. The only time I took my CPU to 1.7v was when I was doing outside overclocking (Winter -10). I had the Multi to 25 and the FSB to 208 to get 5.2Ghz. I needed 1.7v to run Cinebench. I get way lower temps and Voltage using FSB as well. Thanks for the tips

Really? 1.7v for 5.2ghz cinebench?

You sure thats right?

I can run cinebench at 5.2ghz with "just" 1.55v
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