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[Computerbase] AMD's outlook for faster "Bulldozer" successor - Page 11

post #101 of 125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post
a 45 percent improvement over say an i5 2500k is overstating it
sigh. All cores to the max and it IS.
Whether a lot of programs will be capable to utilize all threads is another question.

Gulftown is also 10-20% faster than SB in theory, and highly-threaded professional applications that utilize all cores resemble this since the 2600k cant keep up there, but most people will say the SB is faster just because it is in gaming or 'regular' applications that dont make use of the additional threads.

Sorry, but I dont rate bottlenecked performance, because thats not a fair comparison.
Thats like sayin a GTX 580 is faster than a 590 because some games are not SLI optimized which would make the 580 superior in rare occasions.
Edited by toX0rz - 10/13/11 at 7:49am
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post #102 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by czin125 View Post
but in some benchmarks where they do both single threaded and multi threaded from the same app, it doesn't make it 8x the single threaded one though? they show it as slightly less than 8x of the single threaded one...
There are three problems. The first is that AMD only expected the second integer cores in each module to add 80% to performance, not 100% (this means that at best, 6.5x increase in performance. The second is that most workloads have floating point numbers involved and BD only has 4 FPU's. The third is that the CPU (apparently) can't effectively use all the available integer cores due to poor scheduling by the OS, large cache latencies, not enough decoders, and poor branch prediction. That is to say that the integer units are being bottlenecked.

The poor scheduling can be fixed and (based off Anandtech's Windows 8 not-fully-optimized alpha test) will increase performance 10% or maybe more (and also decrease typical power consumption). The cache latencies were probably increased over expected numbers to increase yields due to poor 32nm performance at Globalfoundries. They will probably increase with the next stepping or two (side note: one of AMD's goals was near linear performance increase with clockspeed (something SB doesn't achieve) and getting the 30% clockspeed advantage over Deneb that was initially expected will also be a side affect of fab improvements).

Improving decoders (if necessary) and improving branch prediction require a complete reworking of the front-end of the processor. With normal development times for simple chip redesigns being a couple of years, I suspect that AMD knew months ago about the poor decode and branch prediction. This is the only explanation for how soon piledriver is being released (just a few months rather than a couple of years for a major redesign). AMD likely counted on the 30% greater stock clockspeed to carry them until the redesign was finished (notice that the 4.6Ghz overclock benches (roughly 30% faster than Deneb designs) were fairly competitive), but AMD was screwed by the bad fab (though I believe AMD to be at fault as well for shipping a faulty design).


My prediction (please don't quote me later, I am being optimistic, but in reality, I have little faith)

Between a 10-15% OS performance increase (this seems fairly definite), better fabs giving (I guess) 20% increase in clockspeed rather than 30% (scaling almost linearly), better fabs giving nearly 80% improvement in cache latencies (to match Deneb latencies should be completely possible, cache is cache), and 10-15% IPC improvement (also seems fairly definite) due to more decode and better branch prediction, I believe that the next iteration will show more of the theoretical potential.

edit: At best, 15% from OS and 15% from redesign gives 30% IPC performance boost (making it 20% faster than Deneb and 20% slower than Sandybridge). Better cache latencies are a mixed bag; they may give less than 2% for some applications or they may give >20% for others. If clockspeed can be increased the total increases give between 35-90% increases in performance (that's a huge delta). Even with a 70-90% increase in overall performance, performance per transister would still be worse than Sandybridge.

This seems to be the only explanation for why a chip half the transistor count of bulldozer can have better performance.
Edited by hajile - 10/13/11 at 8:50am
post #103 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by toX0rz View Post
Simple, everyone with common sense would know that it obviously indicates not optimized software to fully support the additional cores/threads or faulty chip performance due to being an ES.
Couldn't this be said for BD?

I see 2 reasons for BD's performance.

1. It really is just this bad and they released it in hopes of recovering some costs and are in the process of developing something better.

or

2. Faulty OS scheduler, BIOS, software, etc.

Not a fanboy in anyway, just my observation. Hard to wrap my head around releasing lesser performing chips than current offerings, unless it was to recover whatever costs they can.
    
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post #104 of 125
It just came out yesterday and they're already hyping it's successor?
post #105 of 125
amd...if you listen to this crowd... what you need to do is have 2 research teams dedicated to the bulldozer and working on he old k8 or 9 arch and friggen design the puppies by hand. if the second revision is still worse then sandy bridge or whatever intel has on the field then cut the program and go back to your roots...

try a different method instead of going headstrong on a project that does not deliver.
post #106 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty67 View Post
AMD pays less for labor
HAHA I see what you did there.

Very nice.
    
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post #107 of 125
sorry...phone cut out the link to original poster
Quote:
2. Faulty OS scheduler, BIOS, software, etc.
hopefully this is the case.
post #108 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekg84 View Post
amd is so lucky they got their graphics division. imo thats the only reason why they are still on the market.
Llano?
    
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post #109 of 125
AMD Radeon.
   
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post #110 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post
AMD Radeon.
Yeah I know... I said Llano because they are doing very well for AMD.
    
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